# Petty Theft Auto? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340 "2006-06-04T02:05:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/1 "2006-06-04T02:05:53Z")
If a car worth less than $300 (or whatever the dividing line between grand and petty theft is, if not $300) gets stolen, can the perpetrator be charged with petty theft auto? Or is stealing a car always grand theft? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/2 "2006-06-04T04:16:56Z")
I remember hearing the line was at $50 (probably archaic, like jury pay, and likely varies among states) and that practically speaking, no one steals a car that doesn’t fall under the grand theft guideline. Nevertheless, I share your interest in hearing an authoritative answer. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/3 "2006-06-04T07:49:24Z")
I don’t think that the formal charge is going to specify the actual item stolen. IOW, the alleged thief will be charged with “petty theft,” not “petty theft auto.” Here’s a [listing](http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:l_IkkD53hE0J:www.ndaa-apri.org/pdf/anticamcord_%2520theft_statutes.pdf+grand+theft+statute&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5) by state. Not sure why “anti-camcording” is referenced… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/4 "2006-06-04T13:43:28Z")
For a second I was expecting to see a news link to an article talking about Richard Petty stealing a car… ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/5 "2006-06-04T15:55:25Z")
In Otto’s listing, what the heck is “Theater Owner Immunity” that is referenced several times, including for my state of NY??? ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/6 "2006-06-04T16:19:41Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > I remember hearing the line was at $50 (probably archaic, like jury pay, and likely varies among states) and that practically speaking, no one steals a car that doesn’t fall under the grand theft guideline. Nevertheless, I share your interest in hearing an authoritative answer. I think someone stealing a car worth under $50 would be indicted under a charge of ‘impersonating a public servant’. Specifically, a trash collector … ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/7 "2006-06-04T16:42:47Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > In Otto’s listing, what the heck is “Theater Owner Immunity” that is referenced several times, including for my state of NY??? Provisions in the law that theater owners are allowed to detain a patron for a reasonable time if they suspect he’s recording. Here’s, for example, the California statute: > [@](#): > > A theater owner may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the theater owner has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to operate a video recording device within the premises of a motion picture theater without the authority of the owner of the theater. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/8 "2006-06-04T16:57:16Z")
One would have to feel like a special kind of dickhead for admitting to fellow inmates that he was sent in for Petty Theft Auto. ---
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/9 "2006-06-04T18:20:06Z")
I briefly checked California’s [Penal Code](http://www.saccourt.com/criminal/bailsch/felonybail/penalCode.asp) (actually bail schedules, but I’m guessing that’s good enough) and didn’t see anything about PTA, so I’m guessing that **Otto** is right that it would simply be petty theft. Good to know that bail for assault with a machine gun is a minimum $100,000 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/10 "2006-06-04T19:52:43Z")
> [@Ender\_Will](#): > > SNIP > > Good to know that bail for assault with a machine gun is a minimum $100,000 I gotta’ say, you get -5 points on your final grade if you FAIL to kill someone when you break out real machine gun. Actually, I can’t imagine whipping one out and not getting either a murder charge or killed. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/11 "2006-06-04T20:22:52Z")
Well, you could just club them over the head with it. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/12 "2006-06-04T21:32:54Z")
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I can’t wait for the video game to come out. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/13 "2006-06-05T00:39:52Z")
Here are the relevant Michigan statute: > [@](#): > > 750.413 Motor vehicle; taking possession and driving away. > > Sec. 413. > > Taking possession of and driving away a motor vehicle—Any person who shall, wilfully and without authority, take possession of and drive or take away, and any person who shall assist in or be a party to such taking possession, driving or taking away of any motor vehicle, belonging to another, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years. [http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(eq3euhzvj4h10a55vrggmwzq)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-413](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(eq3euhzvj4h10a55vrggmwzq)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-413) > [@](#): > > 750.356 Larceny. > > Sec. 356. > > (1) A person who commits larceny by stealing any of the following property of another person is guilty of a crime as provided in this section: > > (a) Money, goods, or chattels. > > (b) A bank note, bank bill, bond, promissory note, due bill, bill of exchange or other bill, draft, order, or certificate. > > © A book of accounts for or concerning money or goods due, to become due, or to be delivered. > > (d) A deed or writing containing a conveyance of land or other valuable contract in force. > > (e) A receipt, release, or defeasance. > > (f) A writ, process, or public record. > > (2) If any of the following apply, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years or a fine of not more than $15,000.00 or 3 times the value of the property stolen, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine: > > (a) The property stolen has a value of $20,000.00 or more. > > (b) The person violates subsection (3)(a) and has 2 or more prior convictions for committing or attempting to commit an offense under this section. For purposes of this subdivision, however, a prior conviction does not include a conviction for a violation or attempted violation of subsection (4)(b) or (5). > > (3) If any of the following apply, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00 or 3 times the value of the property stolen, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine: > > (a) The property stolen has a value of $1,000.00 or more but less than $20,000.00. > > (b) The person violates subsection (4)(a) and has 1 or more prior convictions for committing or attempting to commit an offense under this section. For purposes of this subdivision, however, a prior conviction does not include a conviction for a violation or attempted violation of subsection (4)(b) or (5). > > (4) If any of the following apply, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $2,000.00 or 3 times the value of the property stolen, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine: > > (a) The property stolen has a value of $200.00 or more but less than $1,000.00. > > (b) The person violates subsection (5) and has 1 or more prior convictions for committing or attempting to commit an offense under this section or a local ordinance substantially corresponding to this section. > > (5) If the property stolen has a value of less than $200.00, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $500.00 or 3 times the value of the property stolen, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine. > > (6) The values of property stolen in separate incidents pursuant to a scheme or course of conduct within any 12-month period may be aggregated to determine the total value of property stolen. > > (7) If the prosecuting attorney intends to seek an enhanced sentence based upon the defendant having 1 or more prior convictions, the prosecuting attorney shall include on the complaint and information a statement listing the prior conviction or convictions. The existence of the defendant’s prior conviction or convictions shall be determined by the court, without a jury, at sentencing or at a separate hearing for that purpose before sentencing. The existence of a prior conviction may be established by any evidence relevant for that purpose, including, but not limited to, 1 or more of the following: > > (a) A copy of the judgment of conviction. > > (b) A transcript of a prior trial, plea-taking, or sentencing. > > © Information contained in a presentence report. > > (d) The defendant’s statement. > > (8) If the sentence for a conviction under this section is enhanced by 1 or more prior convictions, those prior convictions shall not be used to further enhance the sentence for the conviction pursuant to section 10, 11, or 12 of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.10, 769.11, and 769.12. [http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(eq3euhzvj4h10a55vrggmwzq)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-356](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(eq3euhzvj4h10a55vrggmwzq)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-356) > [@](#): > > 750.356a Larceny; motor vehicles or trailers; aggregate value; prior convictions; breaking or entering; damaging. > > Sec. 356a. > > (1) A person who commits larceny by stealing or unlawfully removing or taking any wheel, tire, air bag, radio, stereo, clock, telephone, computer, or other electronic device in or on any motor vehicle, house trailer, trailer, or semitrailer is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both. > > (2) Except as provided in subsection (3), a person who enters or breaks into a motor vehicle, house trailer, trailer, or semitrailer to steal or unlawfully remove property from it is guilty of a crime as follows: > > (a) If the value of the property is less than $200.00, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $500.00 or 3 times the value of the property, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine. > > (b) If any of the following apply, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $2,000.00 or 3 times the value of the property, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine: > > (i) The value of the property is $200.00 or more but less than $1,000.00. > > (ii) The person violates subdivision (a) and has 1 or more prior convictions for committing or attempting to commit an offense under this section or a local ordinance substantially corresponding to this section. > > © If any of the following apply, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00 or 3 times the value of the property, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine: > > (i) The value of the property is $1,000.00 or more but less than $20,000.00. > > (ii) The person violates subdivision (b)(i) and has 1 or more prior convictions for violating or attempting to violate this section. For purposes of this subparagraph, however, a prior conviction does not include a conviction for a violation or attempted violation of subdivision (a) or (b)(ii). > > (d) If any of the following apply, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years or a fine of not more than $15,000.00 or 3 times the value of the property, whichever is greater, or both imprisonment and a fine: > > (i) The property has a value of $20,000.00 or more. > > (ii) The person violates subdivision ©(i) and has 2 or more prior convictions for committing or attempting to commit an offense under this section. For purposes of this subparagraph, however, a prior conviction does not include a conviction for a violation or attempted violation of subdivision (a) or (b)(ii). > > (3) A person who violates subsection (2)(a) or (b) and who breaks, tears, cuts, or otherwise damages any part of the motor vehicle, house trailer, trailer, or semitrailer is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years or a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both, regardless of the value of the property. > > (4) The values of property stolen or unlawfully removed in separate incidents pursuant to a scheme or course of conduct within any 12-month period may be aggregated to determine the total value of property stolen or unlawfully removed. > > (5) If the prosecuting attorney intends to seek an enhanced sentence based upon the defendant having 1 or more prior convictions, the prosecuting attorney shall include on the complaint and information a statement listing the prior conviction or convictions. The existence of the defendant’s prior conviction or convictions shall be determined by the court, without a jury, at sentencing or at a separate hearing for that purpose before sentencing. The existence of a prior conviction may be established by any evidence relevant for that purpose, including, but not limited to, 1 or more of the following: > > (a) A copy of the judgment of conviction. > > (b) A transcript of a prior trial, plea-taking, or sentencing. > > © Information contained in a presentence report. > > (d) The defendant’s statement. > > (6) If the sentence for a conviction under this section is enhanced by 1 or more prior convictions, those prior convictions shall not be used to further enhance the sentence for the conviction pursuant to section 10, 11, or 12 of chapter IX of the code of criminal procedure, 1927 PA 175, MCL 769.10, 769.11, and 769.12. [http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(eq3euhzvj4h10a55vrggmwzq)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-356a](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(eq3euhzvj4h10a55vrggmwzq)/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-356a) A quick scan suggests that the thief would be guilty of taking possession of and driving away a motor vehicle and larceny (which would be considered a misdemeanor). In other words, the Michigan Penal Code avoids the issue avoiding the term “grand theft.” ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/petty-theft-auto/359340/14 "2006-06-05T00:51:46Z")
California makes all automobile (and sheep) theft “grand theft.” > [@](#): > > 1. Grand theft is theft committed in any of the following cases: > > (a) When the money, labor, or real or personal property taken is > of a value exceeding four hundred dollars ($400), except as provided > in subdivision (b). > (b) **Notwithstanding subdivision (a), grand theft is committed in > any of the following cases:** > (1) (A) When domestic fowls, avocados, olives, citrus or deciduous > fruits, other fruits, vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or other farm > crops are taken of a value exceeding one hundred dollars ($100). > (B) For the purposes of establishing that the value of avocados or > citrus fruit under this paragraph exceeds one hundred dollars > ($100), that value may be shown by the presentation of credible > evidence which establishes that on the day of the theft avocados or > citrus fruit of the same variety and weight exceeded one hundred > dollars ($100) in wholesale value. > (2) When fish, shellfish, mollusks, crustaceans, kelp, algae, or > other aquacultural products are taken from a commercial or research > operation which is producing that product, of a value exceeding one > hundred dollars ($100). > (3) Where the money, labor, or real or personal property is taken > by a servant, agent, or employee from his or her principal or > employer and aggregates four hundred dollars ($400) or more in any 12 > consecutive month period. > © When the property is taken from the person of another. > (d) **When the property taken is any of the following:** (1) An **automobile** , horse, mare, gelding, any bovine animal, any > caprine animal, mule, jack, jenny, sheep, lamb, hog, sow, boar, gilt, > barrow, or pig. > (2) A firearm. > (e) This section shall become operative on January 1, 1997. (Emphasis added.) [http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=4686182526+2+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=4686182526+2+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve) It also has the (easier to prove) joyriding offense: > [@](#): > > 1. (a) Any person who drives or takes a vehicle not his or her > own, without the consent of the owner thereof, and with intent either > to permanently or temporarily deprive the owner thereof of his or > her title to or possession of the vehicle, **whether with or without > intent to steal the vehicle**, or any person who is a party or an > accessory to or an accomplice in the driving or unauthorized taking > or stealing, is guilty of a public offense and, upon conviction > thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not > more than one year or in the state prison or by a fine of not more > than five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both the fine and > imprisonment. (Emphasis added.) [http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=4684941860+2+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=4684941860+2+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve)