# Pew Poll: 44 Percent of Liberal Democrats Say Churches Bad for America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699 "2017-10-01T03:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/181 "2017-10-05T15:51:05Z")
What really struck me about the OP is that Bruiser1036 seemed really surprised that a significant number (but not even half) of those on the political left think that churches’ impact is negative. I was thinking that he must be living in some kind of bubble, where it’s just taken for granted that Christianity and people going to church is a _good_ thing. And also how he takes it for granted that Christians would be opposed to abortion rights, or publicly funded abortions. I don’t doubt that _most_ Christians are like that, but it’s certainly not that clearly delineated. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/182 "2017-10-05T15:55:42Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > I do believe the country as a whole would be better if us citizens followed the moral laws that Almighty God laid out in the New Testament, yes. What about the Old Testament? You just ignore the moral laws your god laid out in the Old Testament? Can you ignore half your Bible? Actually - you haven’t told us what Bible you’re using. I’m curious - what ‘moral laws’ exist only in your Bible? If you’re saying that the country as a whole would be better if us citizens were nicer to each other, nobody would disagree. But we don’t need a bible for that, and in fact we’d be far, far better without any bibles at all. Bibles tend to tell us to only be nice to certain other like-minded people. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/183 "2017-10-05T16:22:54Z")
Given his posting history, I’m guessing that that 1036 [is a bible verse](https://www.google.com/search?q=verse+10%3A36). [Acts](http://biblehub.com/acts/10-36.htm) seems pretty appropriate. But given that he hasn’t replied in 4 days, I think that he is going with [Matthew 10:14](http://biblehub.com/matthew/10-14.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/184 "2017-10-05T16:26:52Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Then please explain why one of Congress’ first acts was to pass laws providing for military chaplains (exclusively Christian ones) and chaplains for the House and Senate. > > Please explain why so many of our early presidents proclaimed national days of prayer. > > Please explain why Congress allowed the Capitol to be used for church services on Sundays. I will ask again… Exactly what Christian principles was this country founded on? Please cite chapter and verse of the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/185 "2017-10-05T16:45:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus Curses a Fig Tree > > 12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it. Mark 11:12-14 New International Version (NIV) God hates figs! ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/186 "2017-10-05T21:39:43Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > I would like that myself, with not just Christianity, but religion in general on the wane. I certainly don’t want those individuals with such beliefs persecuted in any way; I just want hyper-religious folks to not have the power to control others’ behavior. Well now that you have turned your backs on Christianity, you now have Islam to deal with. Already we are seeing [Muslim riots in France](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1xMpGznUuA). In Germany [they are suggesting German woman reconsider and try wearing the burka](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR1q9Ee5j34). In the UK [London is run by a Muslim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaSU6QYLnsI)and I read that[certain areas are off limits to non-Muslims](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1tEpjmFH9g). Also in the UK Muslims run their own schools with their own rules. More [video of Muslims taking over UK.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA6XcyXsxXU) Soooo good luck. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/187 "2017-10-05T21:44:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well now that you have turned your backs on Christianity, you now have Islam to deal with. > > Already we are seeing [Muslim riots in France](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1xMpGznUuA). > > In Germany [they are suggesting German woman reconsider and try wearing the burka](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR1q9Ee5j34). > > In the UK [London is run by a Muslim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaSU6QYLnsI)and I read that[certain areas are off limits to non-Muslims](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1tEpjmFH9g). Also in the UK Muslims run their own schools with their own rules. > > More [video of Muslims taking over UK.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA6XcyXsxXU) > > Soooo good luck. I have a hard time feeling bad about the worship of one god being replaced by worship of the same god. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/188 "2017-10-05T21:54:24Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > It sounds like you missed this detail, but Trump was the big orange guy who lied all the time. Clinton was the woman. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The best we’re going to get is a heuristic, short of going through _every_ statement made by them - something Politifact _didn’t_ do and never has done. Their statements are selective. I agree that Trump lies more often than Clinton. I just don’t think linking to Politifact is going to be very convincing to people who think the opposite. That’s why I’m asking **Flyer** what test he would come up with. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Wow. On what facts do you base that assessment, dare I ask? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’d really like to know how \*\*Flyer \*\*reached that conclusion. I would especially like him/her to say what did it, if it wasn’t facts and analysis, and if so why was the chosen approach superior. Well, folks, it looks like the SDMB has set a new record for willful ignorance of facts. Since Politifact seems to be our new “go-to” resource, perhaps you people will believe them. > [@](#): > > Let’s get this out of the way: Clinton is a Methodist, and the record on that is abundantly clear. > > The Clinton campaign directed us to several news articles where Clinton discussed her religion, including a Jan. 25 campaign rally in Knoxville, Iowa. When asked about her beliefs, Clinton cited her Methodist faith and tied it into her support for the poor, citing the teachings of Jesus. > **[We actually know a lot about Hillary Clinton's religion](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jun/24/donald-trump/what-do-we-know-about-hillary-clintons-religion-lo/)** > > Donald Trump has once again questioned a presidential candidate’s religious affiliation, accusing presumptive Democratic Oddly, however, I can’t think of anywhere in the Bible where the Jesus that she **claims** to follow says it’s ok to lie. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/189 "2017-10-05T21:58:48Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Well, folks, it looks like the SDMB has set a new record for willful ignorance of facts. > > Since Politifact seems to be our new “go-to” resource, perhaps you people will believe them. > [PolitiFact | What do we know about Hillary Clinton's religion? A lot, actually](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/24/donald-trump/what-do-we-know-about-hillary-clintons-religion-lo/) > > Oddly, however, I can’t think of anywhere in the Bible where the Jesus that she **claims** to follow says it’s ok to lie. What? You are using a pants-on-fire claim for trump to prove \*Hillary \* is the liar? I’m very confused. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/190 "2017-10-05T21:59:21Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Well, folks, it looks like the SDMB has set a new record for willful ignorance of facts. > > Since Politifact seems to be our new “go-to” resource, perhaps you people will believe them. For a moment I found myself astonished to think that you’d actually found some source, any source, that said that Trump lies less than Clinton. But haha, no the source was for something irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/191 "2017-10-05T22:30:16Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well now that you have turned your backs on Christianity, you now have Islam to deal with. And I hope that gets turned away from with equal vigor. I’m guessing that, after the 15th Amendment was passed, someone said, “Well, now that you’ve decided you have no use for a ban on _black_ voters, you have to deal with the ban on _women_ voters.” To which folks said – _Uh, Yeah, Likewise, Naturally._ ---
**Author:** ![Darvish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Darvish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darvish)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/192 "2017-10-05T22:34:06Z")
Churches are not bad: what is “bad” is not thinking for yourself. If you are not doing what you want, you are probably doing what someone else wants you to do, which is a violation of being human. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/193 "2017-10-05T22:35:25Z")
> [@Darvish](#): > > Churches are not bad: > what is “bad” is not thinking for yourself. > > If you are not doing what you want, > you are probably doing what someone else wants you to do, > which is a violation of being human. Oh shit, I’m working for pay! _I’m an alien!_ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/194 "2017-10-05T22:35:27Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Also in the UK Muslims run their own schools with their own rules. Well, gosh, [nobody else does that](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/accelerated-christian-education-christian-fundamentalist-schools-are-teaching-girls-they-must-obey-a7066751.html)! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/195 "2017-10-05T22:45:49Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well now that you have turned your backs on Christianity, you now have Islam to deal with. > > Already we are seeing [Muslim riots in France](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1xMpGznUuA). > > In Germany [they are suggesting German woman reconsider and try wearing the burka](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR1q9Ee5j34). > > In the UK [London is run by a Muslim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaSU6QYLnsI)and I read that[certain areas are off limits to non-Muslims](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1tEpjmFH9g). Also in the UK Muslims run their own schools with their own rules. > > More [video of Muslims taking over UK.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA6XcyXsxXU) > > Soooo good luck. 1. Haven’t tracked it down but Snopes has other “Paris riots” debunked. 2. Fucking Infowars? 3-5. The “off-limits areas” bullshit has been debunked numerous times. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/196 "2017-10-05T23:47:16Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Well, folks, it looks like the SDMB has set a new record for willful ignorance of facts. > > Since Politifact seems to be our new “go-to” resource, perhaps you people will believe them. > [PolitiFact | What do we know about Hillary Clinton's religion? A lot, actually](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/24/donald-trump/what-do-we-know-about-hillary-clintons-religion-lo/) > > Oddly, however, I can’t think of anywhere in the Bible where the Jesus that she **claims** to follow says it’s ok to lie. OMG this is too rich. You’ve linked to a Politifact article that looks at Trump’s claim that “We don’t know anything about Hillary in terms of religion.” And Politifact rated this a Pants on Fire lie. By Trump. “Trump’s statement is inaccurate and ridiculous.” WTF was the point you were trying to make linking this article? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/197 "2017-10-05T23:49:59Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Oddly, however, I can’t think of anywhere in the Bible where the Jesus that she **claims** to follow says it’s ok to lie. If lying means you are not a Christian, there aren’t a lot of Christians out there, are there? And do you think you are fooling anyone by responding to the evidence that Trump lied far more than Hillary with a non-sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/198 "2017-10-06T04:38:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well now that you have turned your backs on Christianity, you now have Islam to deal with. > > […] > > In Germany [they are suggesting German woman reconsider and try wearing the burka](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR1q9Ee5j34). You literally just cited infowars. For those not willing to slog through Alex Jones’s bullshit, here’s the ad in question: > **[UN-sponsored German ad encourages non-Muslims to embrace the hijab](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/712025/UN-sponsored-German-non-Muslims-embrace-hijab)** > > AN ADVERTISEMENT campaign in Germany has encouraged citizens to "enjoy difference" by wearing the hijab following tensions surrounding the Muslim veil in the country Big shocker, Alex Jones is… _misleading_. It’s literally just an ad with a German woman wearing a Hijab headscarf (_not_ a burka!) saying, “I wear a headscarf too. Isn’t it pretty?” It’s about breaking down stereotypes, and celebrating commonalities, _not_ encouraging German women to wear burkas. If your source is Alex Jones and you don’t have a better source, _you do not have a source_. > [@Flyer](#): > > Well, folks, it looks like the SDMB has set a new record for willful ignorance of facts. > > Since Politifact seems to be our new “go-to” resource, perhaps you people will believe them. Seeing as you quoted my post in with these others, I’d think it’s implied that you read my post, right? Because my post is literally saying, “I don’t think **Flyer** is going to accept this heuristic, so I’m asking him what test he would propose.” It is literally exactly the opposite of what you’re saying I said here. Stop rounding me to the nearest cliche and _read_. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/199 "2017-10-06T04:52:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Stop rounding me to the nearest cliche and _read_. I am \*so \*stealing this. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2017, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/200 "2017-10-06T09:39:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > 1. Haven’t tracked it down but Snopes has other “Paris riots” debunked. > > 2. Fucking Infowars? > > 3-5. The “off-limits areas” bullshit has been debunked numerous times. To his credit, it is accurate to say that the current Mayor of London is Muslim. Fortunately, Londoners are by and large not hysterical pussies and don’t immediately crap their pants when finding themselves in the presence of someone of a different religion. While I have various issues with Sadiq Khan his religion isn’t one of them, particularly as it has very little to do with the way in which he is doing his job. We are not all living under Sharia law, he hasn’t demanded that all women wear burkas and one can still purchase decent pulled pork at some local restaurants. And there are no fucking no-go areas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699.md?page=11)