# Pew Poll: 44 Percent of Liberal Democrats Say Churches Bad for America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2017, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699 "2017-10-01T03:05:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/81 "2017-10-02T00:39:19Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > We must dedicate our nation to God’s purpose. As understood by whom? You? Do you know how many people have the same idea but see God’s purpose very differently from you? What makes you right and them wrong? Jesus told you pretty clearly to be humble. ---
**Author:** ![Bruiser1036](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Bruiser1036](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruiser1036)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/82 "2017-10-02T00:44:16Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Why must we? > What is God’s purpose?" > Which God? > Why that God and not any of the others? > How is it that you get to decide this for the rest of us? God’s purpose is laid out in the Bible. Which God? The only God. The one, true God: the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. And one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man: Who for us, too, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried: the third day He rose according to the Scriptures, ascended into heaven, and is seated on the right hand of the Father: He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end. And the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son: Who together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified: Who spoke by the prophets. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/83 "2017-10-02T00:52:11Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > God’s purpose is laid out in the Bible. > > Which God? > > The only God. The one, true God: the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and > invisible. > And one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God > of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, > through Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was > incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man: Who for us, too, was crucified under > Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried: the third day He rose according to the Scriptures, ascended into > heaven, and is seated on the right hand of the Father: He shall come again with glory to judge the living > and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end. > And the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son: Who > together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified: Who spoke by the prophets. > > Amen. Oh! it’s all so clear to me now! what a fool I’ve been! :rolleyes: So you are telling us that you are an atheist about every religion but yours? ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/84 "2017-10-02T00:53:47Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > [The Bible is not, in fact, > in favor of abortion.](https://www.gotquestions.org/abortion-Bible.html) > > [At all.](https://carm.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion) > > But hey, what do you liberals care about facts. It depends on your translation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/85 "2017-10-02T00:59:41Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > God’s purpose is laid out in the Bible. > > Which God? > > The only God. The one, true God: the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and > invisible. > And one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God > of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, > through Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was > incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man: Who for us, too, was crucified under > Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried: the third day He rose according to the Scriptures, ascended into > heaven, and is seated on the right hand of the Father: He shall come again with glory to judge the living > and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end. > And the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son: Who > together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified: Who spoke by the prophets. > > Amen. But we are at least as reliably informed that لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱلله There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God. What makes you right? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/86 "2017-10-02T01:10:51Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > God’s purpose is laid out in the Bible. > > Which God? > > The only God. The one, true God: the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and > invisible. > And one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God > of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, > through Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was > incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man: Who for us, too, was crucified under > Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried: the third day He rose according to the Scriptures, ascended into > heaven, and is seated on the right hand of the Father: He shall come again with glory to judge the living > and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end. > And the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son: Who > together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified: Who spoke by the prophets. > > Amen. Again, why should we do that? How do we know the Bible is true? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/87 "2017-10-02T01:19:43Z")
Fucking time limits!!! As for “God’s purpose being laid out in the Bible”, well, there’s more than one version, dude. You said you’re a Baptist. As a Catholic\*, I don’t take the Bible literally, nor do we believe in _sola fide_, or _sola scriptura_. \*Well, non-practicing. But I still generally see myself as Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/88 "2017-10-02T01:32:00Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > We must dedicate our nation to God’s purpose. 🆒 I vote No on that. Fortunately, more and more people are nowadays too. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/89 "2017-10-02T02:00:39Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > From the [article](http://www.christianpost.com/news/44-percent-liberal-democrats-churches-bad-pew-191610/): > You can read the entire Pew poll [here](http://www.people-press.org/2017/07/10/sharp-partisan-divisions-in-views-of-national-institutions/). > > As a pretty conservative Republican, and a devout Baptist Christian, I find these results to be pretty disheartening. It looks like the Democratic Party has even more rigidly embraced the dogma of secular liberalism, and is becoming much less religious and Christian. The Democrats’ extreme stance on abortion—[particularly, their support for the public funding of the killing of the unborn](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/hyde-repeal/502568/)—speaks volumes to this fact. :mad: > > Is it any wonder that atheist and agnostic Americans [vote overwhemlingly Democratic](http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise-social-and-political-views/)? > > Sigh. Mmmkay. I’m just going to go back to the beginning, and take issue with the misinterpretation of the poll itself. There is precisely a four percent difference amongst a SEGMENT of Democrats in an informal poll, who somehow (we aren’t privy to the exact questions asked) didn’t find Churches to be a positive force in America. Declaring that this translates to the notion that the Democratic party “has even more rigidly embraced the dogma of secular liberalism, and is becoming much less religious and Christian,” requires a lot more than just misunderstanding the poll results. It requires rewriting them entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/90 "2017-10-02T02:31:11Z")
The wall between church and state needs to be transparent, so that you can see atheists throwing bags of reason over it! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/91 "2017-10-02T02:37:21Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > I do believe the country as a whole would be better if us citizens followed the moral laws that Almighty God laid out in the New Testament, yes. > > I go to a Baptist church, and while any random person off the street does not have an obligation to agree with my church’s conservative (and, in my opinion, correct) views on abortion, same-sex marriage, and other issues, I would obviously prefer it if they did. > > Yes, it is important for there to be a separation of church and state. But the wall between the two should not be made of fucking titanium. Does your pastor know you use that kind of language? ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/92 "2017-10-02T02:55:53Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > I do believe the country as a whole would be better if us citizens followed the moral laws that Almighty God laid out in the New Testament, yes. > > I go to a Baptist church, and while any random person off the street does not have an obligation to agree with my church’s conservative (and, in my opinion, correct) views on abortion, same-sex marriage, and other issues, I would obviously prefer it if they did. > > Yes, it is important for there to be a separation of church and state. But the wall between the two should not be made of\*\* fucking\*\* titanium. See this kind of hypocrisy and “Sunday Christian” are why people think your religious beliefs are nonsense. You want to control everybody else without even controlling yourself. You point the finger at everyone else, looking down on them while feeling morally superior. Do you even know what the bible says about swearing? Do you care or do you just get to pick and choose what parts of the bible also apply to you? James 1:26 - If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, _this person’s religion is worthless_. I am so completely sick of the hypocrisy of so-called christians. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/93 "2017-10-02T03:19:25Z")
[Evangelicals say Trump should call alt-right by its real name: Evil](http://www.newsobserver.com/living/religion/article176335911.html) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/94 "2017-10-02T04:09:08Z")
> [@](#): > > While a majority of the public (55%) continues to say that colleges and universities have a positive effect on the way things are going in the country these days, Republicans express increasingly negative views. 58% of Republicans say that colleges and universities are bad for America. _ **This is from the same survey that OP cites.** _ It strikes me as more interesting that than the statistic OP quotes. _ **Note that the partisan divide on this question is much larger than on the churches question.** _ > [@Bruiser1036](#): > > I do believe the country as a whole would be better if us citizens followed the moral laws that Almighty God laid out in the New Testament, yes. > Yes, it is important for there to be a separation of church and state. But the wall between the two should not be made of fucking titanium. Out of curiosity, what about Americans who are devout adherents to Judaism? Islam? But I’m even more curious about the fact that 58% of Republicans (just “Republicans and those who lean Republican” — not “right-wing Republicans”) think colleges are bad. Do you agree **Bruiser1036**? Are schools bad for America? > [@Bruiser1036](#): > > God’s purpose is laid out in the Bible. > > Which God? > > The only God. The one, true God: the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and > invisible. > And one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, God > of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten not made, being of one substance with the Father, > through Whom all things were made: Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was > incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man: Who for us, too, was crucified under > Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried: the third day He rose according to the Scriptures, ascended into > heaven, and is seated on the right hand of the Father: He shall come again with glory to judge the living > and the dead, and His kingdom shall have no end. > And the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son: Who > together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified: Who spoke by the prophets. > > Amen. I don’t see any mention of education here. Is the one true God also opposed to schools? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/95 "2017-10-02T04:18:53Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > The debate is whether the increasing secularization of American liberals and the Democratic Party has made them irrationally hostile to religion and Christianity. I say it has. And I also say it is bad for the country. Maybe it has nothing to do with religion. I think it’s bad for the country that lots of preachers tell their congregations how to vote, and yet don’t have to pay taxes on billions of dollars worth of real estate and income, and I would feel the same way about any secular organization that did the same. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/96 "2017-10-02T04:21:43Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > [Evangelicals say Trump should call alt-right by its real name: Evil](http://www.newsobserver.com/living/religion/article176335911.html) Would those be the same evangelicals that [voted for Trump by a margin of 81 to 16](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/)? And the ones who currently share with neo-Nazis the distinction of being [one of the strongest demographic of his base](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/26/among-white-evangelicals-regular-churchgoers-are-the-most-supportive-of-trump/?utm_source=Pew+Research+Center&utm_campaign=f01dd8b2e6-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_04_26&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3e953b9b70-f01dd8b2e6-400296741)? All of which has to be one of the great ironies of our times, since Trump himself is about as devoutly religious as my dog. Actually my dog’s friendliness towards others and his general outlook of minding his own business and letting others be reflects a far more Christian attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/97 "2017-10-02T04:22:58Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > Because it foments anti-Christian bigotry, and leads to moral relativism and a hatred of the Christian biblical principles that have defined this great country for over 300 years. The US is only 241 years old. You’re not off to a great start by inflating that to “over 300”. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/98 "2017-10-02T04:27:58Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > The debate is whether the increasing secularization of American liberals and the Democratic Party has made them irrationally hostile to religion and Christianity. To complement my previous post on secular reasons, I just want to note that Christians are not the best authorities on rationality. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/99 "2017-10-02T04:29:51Z")
When so many so-called Christians act like holier-than-thou hypocrites, to the point of voting a crass, misogynistic, bigoted bully into the highest office in the land so long as they think he’ll appoint judges who’ll protect their right to cast the first stone at the “sin” they think they see all around them, well, what do you expect? What ever happened to humility, to charity, to compassion? If you want people to see you as a force for good, maybe spend less time judging them and more time actually trying to do some good. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699/100 "2017-10-02T04:37:38Z")
> [@Bruiser1036](#): > > I do believe the country as a whole would be better if us citizens followed the moral laws that Almighty God laid out in the New Testament, yes. Seriously? You think we should abolish our military and criminal justice system, love our enemies, and forgive criminals? That’s about the only morality from Jesus that wasn’t already in the Hebrew Bible. Jesus also said to obey every law of Moses, which means killing women who can’t prove they are virgins on their wedding night, killing rape victims within city limits, killing people for mowing their lawn or washing their car on the Sabbath, and other absurdities that make Sharia Law look liberal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pew-poll-44-percent-of-liberal-democrats-say-churches-bad-for-america/797699.md?page=6)