# Peyton Manning to Broncos, Tebow to be traded **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 19, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233 "2012-03-19T16:17:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/41 "2012-03-20T00:41:10Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > How much do you trust John Elway and the owners? I would think they would have done their due dilligence before giving him almost a hundred million dollars and/or cover their asses if he does get hurt or can’t play. Guess that’s the $100 million question then. To be fair to Elway and Co. there’s no way they could have tested Peyton in a game situation, so signing him is going to be a gamble. Personally I think it’s a relatively good one. Sitting out for a whole year would presumably let Peyton’s body heal up from the 14 years of wear and tear he’s inevitably had; if his neck really is healed, maybe the Broncos are getting a well-rested guy who’s ready to return to his MVP form. And if any team is going to hand Peyton the ball and tell him “You’re the man now,” it’s the Broncos under Elway’s hand. I can’t think of a current NFL quarterback who is more like Elway, and you have to figure that’s what the Broncos are looking to replicate. IMHO the Broncos are doing the equivalent of going all-in pre-flop on A-K suited. Peyton gives them a good chance of winning, probably the best chance of winning. But it’s not a guaranteed chance of winning by any stretch of the imagination. And the last time I did just that, I went home broke. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/42 "2012-03-20T01:05:15Z")
A couple of data points on the perceived value of Tim Tebow: “Denver to win the Superbowl” went from 75-1 before the announcement to 10-1 after it. Denver media are reporting that talk around the league indicates that the price for Tebow in trade is a fifth round draft pick. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/43 "2012-03-20T02:41:11Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wonder what made him pick Denver over San Francisco. All circumstances seem to point to the latter, except I don’t know how much they offered. Maybe they were ony willing to a 2 year deal or something. Or Maybe Harbaugh wasn’t willing to give Manning as much control as he wanted. > > I think Denver’s receivers are underrated, Demaryius Thomas came on strong when he was finally healthy last year. Still, would’ve been crazy to see Manning throwing to Moss and Vernon Davis, with that defense getting the ball back to him several times a game. Agreed. I think people are looking too closely at what’s on the roster immediately, as if Manning is in a one-and-done situation. My impression is that Manning wants to play 2-5 years; in which case the question is more about where the team is headed over the near future, not right this minute. If you think about it in those terms, the differences between the teams are not as great as people think: Yeah, Moss, Crabtree and Davis would be great targets, but Moss is likely only a one-or-two year guy, and Crabtree will be looking for new, big money contract before long. And of course, all three have been known for drama. Decker and Thomas are talented guys just entering their prime, and figure to be in place for his whole tenure. The whole team is one year into a rebuild, and looks to be on the rise. Of course, at the end of the day I suspect it came down to simply his chemistry with and comfort with Elway and Fox more than anything. As for Tebow, assuming he only costs a late-round pick, I think he’d be a good acquisition for a team with a firmly-entrenched starter who would kill Tebowmania, but could use help at backup. The Patriots are one obvious location. Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are others. As an Eagles fan, I’d be very OK with giving up a 5th for him; he’s a backup with game experience, and Reid would have two years to develop him. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/44 "2012-03-20T03:36:31Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Hey, our starting rookie quarterback took the team from 4-12 in 2010 to 8-8 and in the playoffs in 2011 despite not starting the season until the team already had a 4 game deficit. What should we do with him? Fire him, and hire an old busted question mark who used to be good but costs a zillion dollars and might shatter like porcelain first time he gets hit. > > Great idea! How anyone can complain about losing a guy (that wasn’t a rookie, btw) that can’t complete 50% of his passes in favor of arguably the best QB of all time is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/45 "2012-03-20T04:06:11Z")
> [@furt](#): > > As for Tebow, assuming he only costs a late-round pick, I think he’d be a good acquisition for a team with a firmly-entrenched starter who would kill Tebowmania, but could use help at backup. The Patriots are one obvious location. Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are others. As an Eagles fan, I’d be very OK with giving up a 5th for him; he’s a backup with game experience, and Reid would have two years to develop him. In addition to having to put in an entirely different offense for your backup QB, you would have to accept that the large number of Tebow fans would start chanting “TEBOW, TEBOW, TEBOW” the first time your #1 throws an interception or fumbles. Even in New England or Green Bay. I am completely serious. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/46 "2012-03-20T05:11:28Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > In addition to having to put in an entirely different offense for your backup QB, you would have to accept that the large number of Tebow fans would start chanting “TEBOW, TEBOW, TEBOW” the first time your #1 throws an interception or fumbles. Even in New England or Green Bay. I am completely serious. In Green Bay, New England, or New Orleans, such a chant might be considered _prima facie_ evidence of mental health issues requiring commitment to an appropriate treatment facility. ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/47 "2012-03-20T08:16:49Z")
This thread is awesome. I can’t thank you all enough for such gems as “Peyton Manning is a system quarterback,” and “Peyton’s last two years were very good but not spectacular.” Absolutely priceless. I guess when you’re Peyton Manning, throwing for 4,500+ yards and 33 TDs while completing over 66% of your passes is just “very good.” Quite a high bar, there. And in case anyone was wondering, Peyton was better outdoors in his last two seasons than he was indoors (ESPN has the splits). He was fairly equal between the two in 2008. You have to go back to 2007 before you see significant difference in his outdoor/indoor splits (and it was **significant** ), but it’s fair to say he’s overcome that. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/48 "2012-03-20T11:55:08Z")
> [@furt](#): > > As an Eagles fan, I’d be very OK with giving up a 5th for him; he’s a backup with game experience, and Reid would have two years to develop him. As a Giants fan, I’ll happily give up a 5th to send him to Philly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/49 "2012-03-20T12:45:28Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Hey, our starting rookie quarterback took the team That’s not how it works. Elway knows that, which is why he didn’t cotton to Tebow immediately and talked about how much he needed to improve this offseason. And then he did something even better in signing a guy who, if he’s healthy and close to as good as he was in 2010, is a better quarterback than Tebow is ever going to be anyway. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/50 "2012-03-20T12:57:01Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > In addition to having to put in an entirely different offense for your backup QB, you would have to accept that the large number of Tebow fans would start chanting “TEBOW, TEBOW, TEBOW” the first time your #1 throws an interception or fumbles. Even in New England or Green Bay. I am completely serious. I have no doubt that you are; I think you’re wrong. Also, despite what the talking heads on ESPN say, this idea that Tebow needs some sort of offense specifically installed for him is pure horseshit. The Broncos said repeatedly that they never changed their offense when changing from Orton to Tebow, and had no plans to do so this year. They developed a few option plays and worked them in, and they changed their play-call tendencies; that is not remotely the same thing as “putting in a different offense.” Especially at the NFL level, the biggest difference between systems is simply terminology; obviously, you don’t need to change what a formation or play is called just because the backup isn’t as good a passer. You’d change your _playcalling_, and so a team’s offense would _look_ different on TV, but that isn’t the same thing as changing an offense. The Packers run a lot of empty-backfield shotgun pass plays with Rodgers; more than anyone in the league in fact. If they put in a backup (whoever it was), you can guess they’d do less of that, and probably use more two-back formations and more running plays. That’s not a different offense, though; all the same formations and plays are in the playbook all along, and they’re just changing how often they run them. Teams pretty much always do that when a backup enters a game anyway. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/51 "2012-03-20T13:22:22Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > This thread is awesome. I can’t thank you all enough for such gems as “Peyton Manning is a system quarterback,” and “Peyton’s last two years were very good but not spectacular.” Absolutely priceless. > > I guess when you’re Peyton Manning, throwing for 4,500+ yards and 33 TDs while completing over 66% of your passes is just “very good.” Quite a high bar, there. > > And in case anyone was wondering, Peyton was better outdoors in his last two seasons than he was indoors (ESPN has the splits). He was fairly equal between the two in 2008. You have to go back to 2007 before you see significant difference in his outdoor/indoor splits (and it was **significant** ), but it’s fair to say he’s overcome that. I’m the one who said Peyton Manning wasn’t the elite quarterback he had beem his last full season. And I STICK by that. If the Broncos has gotten Peyton Manning 6, 7 or 8 years ago, they’d have gotten one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. But in 2010, his last full season, his passer rating was 91.9, which ISN’T elite. It’s very good, and MOST teams would take that in a heartbeat, but it didn’t make him the best QB in the NFL or even one of the top few. Even if Manning weren’t coming off an injury, he’d be approaching an age when MOST great quarterbacks start to tail off noticeably. I’m already on record as saying this is a good move for Denver, and that Manning is a BIG upgrade over Tebow. I’m merely saying that Manning is well past his peak. NOT that “he sucks” or “he’s over the hill” or "The Broncos shouild have kept Tebow. Just that the Manning we see on the field this year is NOT likely to be the perennial All-Pro we got used to seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/52 "2012-03-20T13:50:26Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > …by people who know nothing about football. Agreed. At 35, Manning’s days are certainly numbered. I guess Tebow fever was only a 24 hour virus. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/53 "2012-03-20T14:08:21Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > How anyone can complain about losing a guy (that wasn’t a rookie, btw) that can’t complete 50% of his passes in favor of arguably the best QB of all time is beyond me. Eh…for all the game time he got in 2010, he was a rookie. Call him a rookie who had prior experience as an intern. 😃 This is the last I’ll say about it here. The guy’s appeal is not, and never has been, that he’s a fantastic QB or that he’s a good QB with a brilliant future. It is that he is not Orton or Cutler. No, he doesn’t complete a lot of passes, but considering Denver fans had gotten used to “completion” meaning “completion or interception, take your pick” he was a refreshing change. He produced far fewer soul-crushing turnovers and that allowed the other assets to shine resulting in wins against teams that should have been beaten to begin with. I dunno, sometimes a rotten apple tastes pretty good when all you’ve had to eat has been turds. Maybe Manning will be a Marie Calendar’s apple pie for Denver, and maybe we’ll see in short order that Tebow, sweet guy that he is, will serve the Broncos better by playing for someone else. Or maybe Manning is washed up and The Donks will be in for another 5 years of “blah” while they look for a new QB, head coach and GM. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/54 "2012-03-20T14:15:16Z")
Tebow was fun to watch and had a little x-factor to him, but the guy was also totally hot and cold, flubbing plays until the 4th quarter over and over again. He had ~46% completion percentage. Trading for a guy with 50,000+ passing yards, the best TD/int differential in history and so on seems like a good move. Just look at the different kind of sensation these guys create. Tebow had lackluster starts (though we DID go to the playoffs for a change) but got the evangelicals all excited. Peyton Manning is practically a religious figure in the religion of football. Big, big difference. The Broncos have a lot of strengths outside of quarterback. Top running game, solid defense. With a passing game they can be a threat to anyone. If this… if that… I know. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/55 "2012-03-20T14:33:50Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > If the Broncos has gotten Peyton Manning 6, 7 or 8 years ago, they’d have gotten one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. But in 2010, his last full season, his passer rating was 91.9, which ISN’T elite. It’s very good, and MOST teams would take that in a heartbeat, but it didn’t make him the best QB in the NFL or even one of the top few. You’re reading way too much into passer rating here. Manning’s 91.9 was good for 10th in the league, behind guys like Freeman, Flacco, Cassel, and Schaub, but none of them could have done the job he did on the Colts that year. What really kills Manning’s 2010 rating is his interception rate, but he had to keep chucking the ball - the Colts were 29th in rushing that year and their top two RBs combined for less than 1000 yards. Drop 2010 Manning onto the Bucs, Ravens, Chiefs or Texans and those teams improve; drop their QBs onto the 2010 Colts and they’re lucky to even hit .500. Manning wasn’t the best QB in the NFL in 2010, but he was better than you’re making him out to be. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/56 "2012-03-20T14:47:52Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > You’re reading way too much into passer rating here. Manning’s 91.9 was good for 10th in the league, behind guys like Freeman, Flacco, Cassel, and Schaub, but none of them could have done the job he did on the Colts that year. What really kills Manning’s 2010 rating is his interception rate, but he had to keep chucking the ball - the Colts were 29th in rushing that year and their top two RBs combined for less than 1000 yards. Drop 2010 Manning onto the Bucs, Ravens, Chiefs or Texans and those teams improve; drop their QBs onto the 2010 Colts and they’re lucky to even hit .500. > > Manning wasn’t the best QB in the NFL in 2010, but he was better than you’re making him out to be. Again, Manning is a major upgrade for the Broncos, assuming he’s in good health. If you think I’m a Tebow apologist or that I’m down on this deal, you’re mistaken. But at this stage, a HEALTHY Peyton Manning is probably, oh, the 8th best quarterback in the NFL, in my opinion. And he’s NOT likely to move up that list over the next few years; he’s far more likley to move DOWN the list. That’s not a negative reflection on him, just an acknowledgement that quarterbacks start to deteriorate at his age, even if they’re in good health. John Elway won the Super Bowl in his last 2 seasons as a quarterback, but he clearly was NOT an elite quarterback in those seasons, and Elway himself knew it. Similarly, Manning CAN still win a Super Bowl. He CAN still have 350 yard 4-TD games. But at his age, you’re almost BOUND to see him have more 3 pick games, too. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/57 "2012-03-20T15:25:29Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But at this stage, a HEALTHY Peyton Manning is probably, oh, the 8th best quarterback in the NFL, in my opinion. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, I’ll give you those. But IF HEALTHY, I’d take Peyton over any other QB. Eli? Great year last year. For the first time. Big Douche Ben? Not even close. Romo? Rivers? Great stats, but do they really make the team better like Peyton does? There shouldn’t be 7 other QB’s in the league you’d rather have than a healthy Peyton going into this year. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/58 "2012-03-20T15:36:28Z")
I’d take the following over Peyton for the next five years: Brees Brady Rodgers Roethlisburger Eli Manning Stafford Philip Rivers Cam Newton Matt Ryan Matt Schaub Michael Vick Borderline: Sanchez Romo ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/59 "2012-03-20T15:38:54Z")
The Broncos are going to announce this afternoon that Manning has signed a five-year, $96 million contract. Now beings the quest for better receivers. I wonder if they will be able to trade Tebow or if they’ll wind up cutting him. He has some skills of his own, but who wants a backup QB who can’t run your regular offense? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/60 "2012-03-20T16:49:55Z")
I can understand trading Tebow for something decent, but why in the world would you just cut him? The only other QB the Broncos have backing up Manning is Adam Weber, and no matter how much you hate Tebow, you can’t prefer him. Give him a clip board and let him watch Manning for the next 3-5 years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233.md?page=4)