# Peyton Manning to Broncos, Tebow to be traded **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 19, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233 "2012-03-19T16:17:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/161 "2012-03-23T19:38:32Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > And Pat Robertson’s liking Tebow extrapolates to all Tebow fans? If one fan or one group of fans has a characteristic, ALL fans share that characteristic? I don’t believe I made any claim even remotely resembling that. > [@](#): > > But is it THAT hard for some to believe that non-Christians may be fans, and in numbers? I don’t see anyone doing that here. What I do see in general is the rabid, evangelical fans drowning out everyone else. > [@](#): > > Seriously? You have never seen an atypical player that just sparked something in you, and you wanted him to succeed against the odds? 'Cause I find that idea kinda sad. Wow, project much? Maybe it’s this sort of persecution complex that makes people think Tebow fans are evangelical, and will at any moment start ranting about the War on Christmas and how Obama is out to burn your church down. Edit: It doesn’t do the Tebow Fan Club any favors of shaking the label of “irrational rabid fandom” by irrationally jumping to conclusions and throwing up strawmen faster than most people bale hay. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/162 "2012-03-23T22:01:32Z")
[Did Tebow lie about his role in deal?](http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/325972-elway-tebow-had-say-in-jets-vs-jags?xid=cnnbin) > [@](#): > > Tebow claimed in an introductory conference call with New York reporters late Wednesday night that he had no say in whether the Broncos traded him to the Jets or the Jaguars… “I didn’t really have any [input],” Tebow said in response to the first question on the call. “The Broncos had all that power. I was just waiting like everyone else.” > > Broncos VP John Elway, who told a Denver radio station Tebow was consulted throughout the day Wednesday after an initial deal with the Jets fell through in a money dispute and Tebow’s hometown Jaguars rejoined the trade discussions. According to Elway’s description, proof that Tebow had the final choice was the fact the Broncos ended up settling for less money and worse draft picks from the Jets than from new Jacksonville owner Shad Khan. Imho, merely based on the above, Elway’s a lying ass or an incompetent executive. He took the lesser deal? Really? What about your responsibility to get the best deal for the organization? OTOH, Tebow has a contract - anybody know if it gives him a say in to which team he is going to be traded? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/163 "2012-03-23T22:10:09Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Imho, merely based on the above, Elway’s a lying ass or an incompetent executive. He took the lesser deal? Really? What about your responsibility to get the best deal for the organization? It may have been a lose-lose situation for Elway. If he trades Tebow where he wants to go, some people would say he didn’t do the best thing for the team. If he traded Tebow someplace he didn’t want to go, people would say he screwed Tebow out of raw hatred. It looks like there was little difference in the two offers. > [@](#): > > OTOH, Tebow has a contract - anybody know if it gives him a say in to which team he is going to be traded? Why would it? I’ve never heard of a football player having a contract like that, and Tebow was a rookie when he signed his contract. When those contracts are given out in other sports, they go to star players and big name free agents. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/164 "2012-03-23T23:19:31Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I don’t believe I made any claim even remotely resembling that. > I don’t see anyone doing that here. What I do see in general is the rabid, evangelical fans drowning out everyone else. Sorry, that was directed at **garygnu** and **astorian**. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/165 "2012-03-24T02:34:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why would it? I’ve never heard of a football player having a contract like that, and Tebow was a rookie when he signed his contract. When those contracts are given out in other sports, they go to star players and big name free agents. Yeah, I’m not knowledgable at all about football contracts - baseball contracts have clauses like that (for name players, at least) and I just assumed football contracts may have the same. However, Elway did imply, if not outright say, that he left the final decision to Tim Tebow. John Elway’s ultimate responsibility is to the shareholders of the Denver Broncos whose #1 priority is to maximize shareholder value (and nothing makes a sports team valuable more than being perceived as a winner). If he turned down a higher bid\* for any reason other than “my boss/the board told me to do so”, he made a bad decision. \*Or worse, left it to a person who had no ties of loyalty to the organization and could very well have taken the worse deal just to fuck with Elway. In this case, Elway’s negligent. And there was a difference in the two offers, in both monetary and draft picks: > [@](#): > > the Broncos ended up settling for less money and worse draft picks from the Jets than from new Jacksonville owner Shad Khan. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/166 "2012-03-24T02:37:45Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > John Elway’s ultimate responsibility is to the shareholders of the Denver Broncos whose #1 priority is to maximize shareholder value (and nothing makes a sports team valuable than being perceived as a winner). If he turned down a higher bid\* for any reason other than “my boss/the board told me to do so”, he made a bad decision. The difference between the offers seems to be negligible. According to reports, the Jaguars offered a fourth-round pick and around $3 million of the advance salary and the Jets offered a (later) fourth-round pick and a sixth-round pick and are paying $2.53 million in advance salary. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/167 "2012-03-24T02:58:06Z")
So, why take $500k and X spots later for no reason (other than “some people won’t like me”, which isn’t really a reason)? I think he’s just being an ass, to tell the truth. He never liked Tebow, looked down on the guy, and had little (if any) respect for him. It wasn’t Tebow’s fault that he was drafted in the first round, it wasn’t Tebow’s “fault” that the team started winning when he QB’d, and from what I read, Tebow tried his best to be an NFL-style quarterback. If he can’t help but sound this petty, Elway would do best never to mention the name “Tebow” in public again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/168 "2012-03-24T03:04:15Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I think he’s just being an ass, to tell the truth. He never liked Tebow, looked down on the guy, and had little (if any) respect for him. It wasn’t Tebow’s fault that he was drafted in the first round, it wasn’t Tebow’s “fault” that the team started winning when he QB’d, and from what I read, Tebow tried his best to be an NFL-style quarterback. > > If he can’t help but sound this petty, Elway would do best never to mention the name “Tebow” in public again. I don’t know what the truth is, but I rest my case: he’s damned either way. And say what you will about Elway never liking Tebow, but his assessment of his ability to play quarterback is probably correct. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/169 "2012-03-24T03:11:07Z")
True that. Note that my comments comes as an evaluation of Elway as an executive. He has certain responsibilities larger than the one to his ego, and he better have _some_ justification for taking the lesser deal financially and operationally. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/170 "2012-03-24T03:28:34Z")
When the deals are that close it makes sense to ask the player where he would rather go. Listening to his request makes you look good to current and future players. Ah. I misread things. I don’t know why Tebow or Elway would lie about that. What an odd situation. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/171 "2012-03-24T05:27:07Z")
“tried his best to be an NFL-style quarterback” isn’t good enough why is Elway the bad guy for trying to get rid of a bad player ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/172 "2012-03-24T05:36:19Z")
I think it is a little out there to paint Elway as a bad guy for trading Tebow. The Broncos had the chance to get Manning and they took it. Personally, I think they should have kept Tebow on as a backup or for certain situations (or for 2 years from now when Manning really does start to get old), but some people are paid millions to make these decisions and they traded him. Yeah, a lot of people like Tebow for various reasons, but most of them like the idea of the Broncos having a shot at a ring more. Maybe Elway secretly _likes_ Tebow and that’s why he took an incrementally worse deal to cater to his preferences. Or maybe he wanted to screw the Jets, or else not help the Jaguars, depending on what you think Elway believes about Tebow. Who knows? 500k is not a lot to hinge a decision on in the NFL. But the basics of this are simple. They went with Manning for pretty obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/173 "2012-03-24T14:22:44Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Has Pat Robertson ever lept to the defense of a football player faster before than he has for Tebow (now on multiple ocassions)? Pat Robertson is an asswagon. What’s your point? > [@Munch](#): > > I don’t see anyone doing that here. What I do see in general is the rabid, evangelical fans drowning out everyone else. Cite? I mean, I don’t deny that there are many people who irrationally love Tebow, and that many of them are evangelicals, and that many love him irrationally _because_ he’s an evangelical. But I don’t see how they’re “drowning out” anyone else. ESPN/NFLN/etc. cover him nonstop, but the vast majority of the coverage isn’t about his religion, and AFAIK, none of the dozens of professional announcers on the air have said he’s a good player because of his faith or anything like that, or even made it a the biggest part of their coverage. They usually mention it, and then go on to discussing his throwing motion. So in what sense is anyone being “drowned out?” AFAICT, there’s at least as many people who hate him because of his religion as love him for it. Go read the comments thread of an article on Tebow on any mainstream website: ESPN, ProFootballTalk and Deadspin are the ones I see most often, but I’d bet it’s pretty similar elsewhere. 90% of his supporters defend him on 1) “he’s a winner” 2) “he’s exciting and fun to watch” and/or 3) “he’s a good kid and a great role model.” Now, some of that latter group may well be evangelicals, but certainly not all of them (as several people on this board have proven); only quite rarely do you see anyone explicitly and seriously saying “he’s blessed by God” or somesuch. Far, far, more common are comments mocking his religion/using his faith as a punch line. At a guess, the comments referencing religion run something like 10 to 1 anti-Tebow. That’s hardly a scientific study, but it’s a data point. As far as I can tell, while some may love Tebow for his religion, there’s at least as many who hold it against him. That helps explain why he’s a _divisive_ figure, but that’s not the same as implying that all or most of Tebow fans are evangelical. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/174 "2012-03-24T14:40:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So, why take $500k and X spots later for no reason (other than “some people won’t like me”, which isn’t really a reason)? Player relations. Right or wrong it’s felt among players that when a guy has made a significant contribution to the team in the past, the team has an obligation to try to make said player’s departure work for both parties. When one offer is 95% as good as another, giving the player his choice is just the classy thing to do. You’re doing right by Tebow, which makes other players think you’ll do right by them when their time comes … and they all are very aware that it will. If the offers were very different, then the situation is different. But when they’re so similar, it’s a low-cost way to make your employees feel they are something other than hunks of beef. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/175 "2012-03-24T20:57:46Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I think it is a little out there to paint Elway as a bad guy for trading Tebow. The Broncos had the chance to get Manning and they took it. Personally, I think they should have kept Tebow on as a backup or for certain situations (or for 2 years from now when Manning really does start to get old), but some people are paid millions to make these decisions and they traded him. I agree that they should have kept him as a backup, or tried to covert him to another position. I certainly don’t think that Elway is a bad guy. I don’t know how he feels about Tebow _personally_. While there a number of fans that would come out to support a Tebow-lead team, it’s just not the kind of football Elway and Fox want their team to play. It’s their team and they get to do what they want. They knew the decision would create a bit of fan backlash. Then Manning was available. A sure hall-of-famer and still a very popular guy. He would play the kind of football Elway wants. He would also quell quite a bit of the fan backlash. Seriously, who would boo Manning? Even Indy fans will still applaud him. His leaving wasn’t a Lebron situation and he is still loved there. There is no downside for Denver…unless… I will restate my prediction (and I really hope I am wrong) that Manning is done. He will not be able to take many hits and will be out after 3 or 4 games. I mean he’s 36 years old and had _4 neck surgeries_. I think at least one doctor would have told him that he should think about hanging them up. But if he holds up, Elway will look like a genius in Denver. I do not understand why New York would want Tebow. I do not understand why Jacksonvile didn’t try harder to get him. There would be no downside for them. Tebow is a hero in Florida. People would actually come out to the stadium to see them. Ticket and mechandise sales would more than cover what they laid out for him. People outside of Jacksonville would actually _want_ to see them on TV. _There would actually be press coverage in Jacksonville!_ ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/176 "2012-03-25T00:53:06Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I will restate my prediction (and I really hope I am wrong) that Manning is done. He will not be able to take many hits and will be out after 3 or 4 games. I mean he’s 36 years old and had _4 neck surgeries_. I think at least one doctor would have told him that he should think about hanging them up. Doesn’t the fact that so many doctors _have_ looked at him and as far as we know not one says he’s at any more risk than anyone else sort of give you pause? Other than sheer unfounded fear, by what logic why should Manning ignore medical advice and stop doing what he loves (and pass up many millions of dollars)? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/177 "2012-03-26T18:58:05Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Doesn’t the fact that so many doctors _have_ looked at him and as far as we know not one says he’s at any more risk than anyone else sort of give you pause? > > Other than sheer unfounded fear, by what logic why should Manning ignore medical advice and stop doing what he loves (and pass up many millions of dollars)? I may be fearing something that will not come to pass, but it is not unfounded. The very fact that he has seen so many doctors would lead a person to conclude that there is at least\* some\* cause for concern. He’s 36 years old. This is pretty old for a professional athlete. Granted, Elway won 2 super bowls after turning 36, but then Elway never spent any significant time on the DL. When you’re 36, you just don’t bounce back as easily as when you were 24. When you injure a part of your body, re-injuring that part is always a concern. He’s already had 4 neck surgeries. The last one cost him an entire season. If Manning chose not to play, he would not be ignoring medical advice. No doctor would _advise_ him to play football, only give medical clearance to do so. I have to think that the surgeon who fixed his neck last time would _prefer_ his patient didn’t engage in such a violent activity. As to the logic of turning down millions of dollars, it would be the same as that of Sandy Koufax. After his playing days were over, he wanted to be able to lift his arm. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/178 "2012-03-28T01:42:20Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I do not understand why New York would want Tebow. Well, Tebow personally made the difference in the Jets v Broncos game last season. Maybe a star quarterback would’ve blown the doors off that game, who knows, but Tebow got it done and their guy didn’t. > [@](#): > > I do not understand why Jacksonvile didn’t try harder to get him. There would be no downside for them. Tebow is a hero in Florida. People would actually come out to the stadium to see them. Ticket and mechandise sales would more than cover what they laid out for him. People outside of Jacksonville would actually _want_ to see them on TV. _There would actually be press coverage in Jacksonville!_ Yah, they were kind of playing footsie with an offer $500k and a couple of draft slots better. Make an offer like a man or go home; Elway made the right choice. Tebow could always go to Jacksonville next year. He’d make a better entrance out of New York that way than out of Denver now I think. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/179 "2012-03-28T01:48:09Z")
I think at this point we can see that Tebow chose New York over Jacksonville. The Jets could be good and the Jaguars are probably still going to be terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233/180 "2012-03-28T03:17:47Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, Tebow personally made the difference in the Jets v Broncos game last season. Maybe a star quarterback would’ve blown the doors off that game, who knows, but Tebow got it done and their guy didn’t. 9 for 20 for a whopping 104 yards isn’t “getting it done”. The fact that Tebow sucked just slightly less than Sanchez shouldn’t be a huge feather in his cap. What “made the difference” in that game was having a defense that forced two turnovers, including one returned for a touchdown, sacked the QB 3 times, and held the opposing offense to 13 points. I’m more than happy to see the Jets suffer with either bad QB Mark Sanchez or bad QB Tim Tebow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peyton-manning-to-broncos-tebow-to-be-traded/616233.md?page=10)