# PGh-13: Pathetic Groaning homophobes who act like they're 13 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952 "2005-11-27T20:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/81 "2005-11-30T00:48:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > \AND HE WAS STILL IN MENUDO AT THE TIME!!! \ Is it just me, or does that sound vaguely dirty to anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/82 "2005-11-30T01:21:29Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > You’ve no idea how happy that makes me. In fact I think I’m finally getting my period. No problem > [@Sampiro](#): > > Pretty much. The most obnoxious demographic in theaters where gay stuff is concerned tends to be young white males. The most dumbass homophobic stuff in the school newspapers at the colleges I’ve attended and worked at tend to be from white frat boys (especially the closet cases- at one school the most homophobic conservative editorialist later came out). I don’t expect more of them. So it’s okay for you to smear an entire group of people, but if they do it to you, they are assholes? > [@Sampiro](#): > > I didn’t, nor did I say or imply that I did. You are full of shit. Here is the quote from post #1: > [@Sampiro](#): > > What bothered me more is that before the movie came to this scene, **there had been graphic scenes of heroin use (which makes me groan, though inwardly)**, a violent mugging, homeless people, etc., and NOBODY had a problem with it. For that matter nobody had a problem with the lesbian couple other than a few snickers and one cheer. (my bolding) Do you actual read what you post? You said the scenes of heroin use make you groan inwardly. I asked you why you “groan” during scenes with heroin use. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Did I say I hated them? I said I don’t approve of IV drug use as a valid lifestyle choice. It leads to all manner of social problems including but not limited to disease, crime, sexual indiscriminacy, domestic violence, etc… But you assume people who groan at male homosexuality hate/discriminate against homosexuals (hence, they are homophobes). I was trying to show how ridiculous the argument you’re making is. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Again, I did extend courtesy to others. I didn’t groan or express judgment. Had it been _real_ heroin use I would have left, but cinematic… no. You didn’t groan audible because of it would have been rude, not because you didn’t have a reaction to what you were seeing in the screen. If this were just a thread about rudeness in movie theaters, you might have a point. But, since you assume that these people who grained are homophobe, you need to be called on your bullshit logic. > [@Sampiro](#): > > This is a rant, not a sociological treatise. However, it is funny and something I’m not the only person here to have noticed- a guy who goes to a movie with a girl will sit next to her. A guy who goes to a movie with another guy will more often leave a seat between them. Don’t take my word for it- check it out. I notice it. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just saying I don’t see causation there. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Why should they react audible at all? They shouldn’t, it was rude. But, let’s not pretend this is only about rudeness. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Talk about your logical flaws. How is that a valid analogy? Your point is that things that are arguable more morally abhorrent should elicit a greater reaction based on that fact. That the people should have reacted to the killing, rape, etc. if they react to the guys kissing. To me, that’s like saying that since cancer kills more people than MS, our efforts should be proportional to the severity of the problem. I think the analogy works fine, in that they both illustrate the same flawed reasoning. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Oh, I’d hoped it wasn’t that obvious. But, since cards are on the table, I’ll tell you a secret: I didn’t really have Rottweilers with me, and I didn’t really try to seal the exits. I did toss some anthrax into one couple’s popcorn, but we’ve all done that. No shit buddy, but if you are going to advocate tolerance, you should avoid \*\*wishing \*\*harm to people. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I have never expressed audible disgust in a movie theater when it wasn’t premeditated. This was theatrical, not visceral, in my opinion. “Approve of me, for I dislike the same people you dislike”. Fuck that joiner bullshit. When you actually get to know any of these people you attribute malicious intent to, your opinion might be valid. You have no idea why they reacted the way they did. Plus, if they really wanted to stick to homos, there are plenty of other, more effective ways, to do it. > [@Sampiro](#): > > A city that has been running newspaper and news articles congratulating itself over how tolerant we are now over how we used to be still condones public displays of disgust over demographics. I see it as relevant. Am I saying it should be against the law? Of course not, but it was rude as hell and inappropriate and hypocritical of those who hate to be reminded of the horrors of Alabama’s past to continue to find such fault in a minor difference between you and your neighbor. You may have a point, but I personally don’t see this as hypocrisy. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Not all, but many, yes. I am Southern, most of the people I love are Southern, and this does not mitigate the truth that many Southerners are reactionary and hypocritical. As are all people, regardless of geography. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I’ll write whatever the goddamned fucking hell I want to anytime I want to on this boards until such time as the Moderators tell me “No more anti-anti-gay rants”, whereupon I’ll end my subscription. You are totally free to make like Dion Warwick and “Walk on by” when you see the thread, I do that all the time when I see threads I’m not interested in and don’t understand why others haven’t grasped this little trick. But then many people never figured out how to use their off-buttons or change channels either. Has anyone suggested that you don’t have a right to write what you’d like? The reason why I don’t just ignore is because it’s most of arguments made in them are faulty. Additionally, it doesn’t help people become more accepting when you call everyone who holds a contrary opinion, a homophobe. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Not liking it is one thing; audibly reacting to it does, and yes, in my opinion that does make them a homophobe or a bad person. Please elaborate? > [@Sampiro](#): > > Nor does it give you the right to impose your views on others while they’re trying to enjoy a movie. They aren’t “imposing” views on you. That’s your own problem, if you get so offended by a noise. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Having unexamined opinions _CAN_ make you a hateful person, whether it’s about gays or blacks or Jews or Catholics or Muslims or little girls with pigtails. I won’t say it does so automatically, but it most certainly has the potential to do so. Why does this case make you think they are hateful? I also noticed you didn’t respond to the “Chatty Chatty Gang Bang girl” or “Booty Mamita” question. What the hell did you mean by that? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/83 "2005-11-30T01:22:58Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Well, actually, it kinda _is._ No, it’s similar in some way, but it’s not the same. Comparing the two is wrong. > [@Eve](#): > > Well, actually, it kinda _does._ I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/84 "2005-11-30T01:36:17Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > No, it’s similar in some way, but it’s not the same. Which might be why she said they’re _ **kind of** _ the same, jackass. Is there some universe in which “kinda the same” doesn’t mean “similar in some way”? > [@brickbacon](#): > > Comparing the two is wrong. Why is it wrong to compare discrimination based on race to discrimination based on sexual orientation? > [@brickbacon](#): > > I disagree. Please, take it easy on us! We can’t follow this sort of dizzyingly brilliant rhetorical flourish! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/85 "2005-11-30T01:59:19Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Please, take it easy on us! We can’t follow this sort of dizzyingly brilliant rhetorical flourish! Oh yeah? Sez you! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/86 "2005-11-30T02:07:39Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > You are full of shit. Here is the quote from post #1: > > (my bolding) > > Do you actual read what you post? You said the scenes of heroin use make you groan inwardly. I asked you why you “groan” during scenes with heroin use. If I say to myself, “ **Brickbacon** has trouble with idioms,” did I say anything? Of course not: saying something to myself is an idiom, meaning that I kept my fool trap shut. Similarly, if someone groans inwardly, the adverb negates the literalness of the word “groans.” It’s perfectly clear that he didn’t groan (i.e., make a noise like, “Unnnnnggggghhhhh!”): he just _thought_ that noise. And I think–I hope–we’re all clear that the Golden Rule doesn’t say, “Think about others what you would like them to think about you.” It has to do with deeds, not thoughts. **Sampiro** , I see now why you think that sitting a seat apart is a sign of fear of gay-cooties. Especially if you ended up liking Menudo–their music is tripe! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/87 "2005-11-30T02:42:47Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > And to comment on an earlier post about how people might not have known that “Rent” has a gay theme…Christ…buy a fuckin’ newspaper or something. How could you NOT know? My mother-in-law went to see “American Beauty” because of her vague notion that it was a sequel to “Black Beauty.” Some people just don’t sweat the details. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/88 "2005-11-30T03:01:14Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > It’s not a life threatening or injurious thing above the superficial level to me, but it’s a symptom of a fucking sick mindset when gay men are less to be tolerated than street drug addiction. Yes, if only we all thought the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/89 "2005-11-30T03:11:28Z")
> [@Clark K](#): > > My mother-in-law went to see “American Beauty” because of her vague notion that it was a sequel to “Black Beauty.” If you tell me she saw _Blue Velvet_ because she thought it was the third in the National Velvet trilogy, I will be your best friend forever. > [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Yes, if only we all thought the same way. Yes, it would be a much better world if being gay were seen as less objectionable than being a junkie, so glad you agree. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/90 "2005-11-30T03:27:47Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Yes, if only we all thought the same way. Or posted the same way. Repeatedly. Are you going to cut and paste this one for page 4 as well? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/91 "2005-11-30T04:19:12Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > If I say to myself, “ **Brickbacon** has trouble with idioms,” did I say anything? Of course not: saying something to myself is an idiom, meaning that I kept my fool trap shut. > > Similarly, if someone groans inwardly, the adverb negates the literalness of the word “groans.” It’s perfectly clear that he didn’t groan (i.e., make a noise like, “Unnnnnggggghhhhh!”): he just _thought_ that noise. Hey asshole, I’m perfectly aware he did not make an audible noise. My point was that he was irked, or bothered by the scenes showing heroin use. If he was bothered by those scenes, why can’t he understand that others people might be bothered by seeing two men kissing, and that their reaction may not have been borne out of a hatred for gays. His “reaction” clearly doesn’t mean he hates drug users, so to assume it’s that way for people who don’t like seeing men kiss is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/92 "2005-11-30T04:31:58Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > So it’s okay for you to smear an entire group of people, but if they do it to you, they are assholes? Again and again and again and again my problem is not with whether they like or dislike or approve or disapprove of me but the fact they were rude and obnoxious. > [@](#): > > You are full of shit. No, there’s blood and bone and muscle and stuff in there as well. The shit’s probably not even 1% of my total body weight. (See, if I used this line you’d take it literally.) > [@](#): > > Here is the quote from post #1: > > (my bolding) Here it is again, with my emphasis: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Sampiro > What bothered me more is that before the movie came to this scene, there had been graphic scenes of heroin use (which makes me groan, though inwardly), a violent mugging, homeless people, etc., and NOBODY had a problem with it. For that matter nobody had a problem with the lesbian couple other than a few snickers and one cheer. You see, there’s a difference between groaning inwardly (which isn’t literal, btw- the closest I’ve ever actually come to groaning inwardly was probably a stifled belch) and groaning out loud. > [@](#): > > But you assume people who groan at male homosexuality hate/discriminate against homosexuals (hence, they are homophobes). Uh… I definitely assume that people who groan OUT LOUD at male homosexuality have something against homosexuality. I would also assume people who groan at an interracial kiss are racist. Whether they hate or discriminate against them I make no speculation towards, particularly the latter as it would depend much on their station in life. > [@](#): > > I was trying to show how ridiculous the argument you’re making is. And you failed nicely. > [@](#): > > You didn’t groan audible because of it would have been rude, not because you didn’t have a reaction to what you were seeing in the screen. If this were just a thread about rudeness in movie theaters, you might have a point. But, since you assume that these people who grained are homophobe, you need to be called on your bullshit logic. My prejudice against heroin addicts is neither irrational nor unexamined. It is a viewpoint formed because heroin addiction is demonstrably harmful to the individual using it, to their inner circle of friends/acquaintances, to society in general. Heroin can be demonstrably proven to be an objectively bad thing without having to resort to religion or cultural relativism or anecdotal evidence. There simply is no comparison to groaning out loud at a completely non graphic male-male kiss. (Hell, Jesus received kisses from men, and not just from Judas- he berated his dinner host once for complaining about the actions of a woman bathing his [Jesus’s] feet by saying “she kissed me, you didn’t”.) And while I don’t believe you made a comment about disliking PDAs in general, let me call **bullshit** on that one to whoever did say it. When was the last time you watched a romantic movie with two straight characters kissing (not a gratuitous sex scene, no tongue, just a peck on the lips) and thought “that’s gross and unnecessary”? And if I am on a subway or in a movie theater and I choose to kiss a male companion on the lips, how in any way does it harm you? > [@](#): > > I notice it. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I’m just saying I don’t see causation there. Fine. > [@](#): > > They shouldn’t, it was rude. But, let’s not pretend this is only about rudeness. No, it’s about attitudes and intolerance and gross public disrespect for the rights of other people to peacefully co-exist as well. > [@](#): > > Your point is that things that are arguable more morally abhorrent should elicit a greater reaction based on that fact. Heroin addiction, police brutality and violent muggings are _arguably_ more abhorrent than homosexuality? Kiss my ass French-style Lucy Mae, and might I add go straight to hell. Were you born this fucking stupid or did you take private lessons with the retarded kid who lived down the street? (I hope that didn’t come off sounding insulting.) > [@](#): > > That the people should have reacted to the killing, rape, etc. if they react to the guys kissing. To me, that’s like saying that since cancer kills more people than MS, our efforts should be proportional to the severity of the problem. I think the analogy works fine, in that they both illustrate the same flawed reasoning. I’m sure that if I sat down and strained like Elvis after a CheeseFest I could make an analogy between the Wal-Mart after Christmas sale and the Anabaptist takeover of Muenster, but that wouldn’t make it a good one. There is **NO** good analogy to be made between disliking two men kissing v. violence v. drug addiction and medical research funding. The two things are apples and Yugos. > [@](#): > > No shit buddy Now you just said I was full of shit and now you’re saying I have no shit. You can’t make a simple argument. (This is what brickbacon calls “Logic”.) > [@](#): > > but if you are going to advocate tolerance, you should avoid \*\*wishing \*\*harm to people. Wishing harm to people hyperbolically during a **RANT** is just a tad different from actually wanting harm to come to them. Earlier, when I said “kiss my ass”, I really am not inviting you travel to my apartment, come upstairs, brush my dog off of you, get down on your knees and apply your lips to my gluteal muscles- in fact I’m never more than a few feet away from a pistol so it’d be really ill advised. Neither do I really want to unleash Rottweilers in a movie theater- oh it’s fun to fantasize about it, but I don’t really intend to do it and if given the option I really wouldn’t do it. Do you by chance have Aspergers? > [@](#): > > Plus, if they really wanted to stick to homos, there are plenty of other, more effective ways, to do it. Such as voting against civil rights for them. Gee, I wonder how these people vote in elections when that’s on the agenda? > [@](#): > > You may have a point, but I personally don’t see this as hypocrisy. I’ve a feeling you wouldn’t see a point in the Pentagon. This is like arguing with Les Nessman. > [@](#): > > Has anyone suggested that you don’t have a right to write what you’d like? The reason why I don’t just ignore is because it’s most of arguments made in them are faulty. Additionally, it doesn’t help people become more accepting when you call everyone who holds a contrary opinion, a homophobe. I have never called everyone who holds a contrary opinion a homophobe. I call people who groan audibly at two men innocently kissing homophobic. I don’t think this is unreasonable. > [@](#): > > I also noticed you didn’t respond to the “Chatty Chatty Gang Bang girl” or “Booty Mamita” question. What the hell did you mean by that? Chatty Chatty Gang Bang- a term for a very talkative sluttily dressed college age girl. Booty Mamita- a term for a large girl with ineloquent speaking ability dressed (at least in this case) in tight party wear and possessed, in relativity to others, a big butt. Were she older I’d have called her a Booty Mama, but as she is younger (adolescent perhaps, Mamita, a diminutive.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/93 "2005-11-30T04:34:07Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Yes, if only we all thought the same way. You’re right. If we all were more tolerant of alternative lifestyles then we wouldn’t have any of those wonderful public beheadings of queers that make the country you live in such a beacon. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/94 "2005-11-30T05:17:22Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > If you allow that it **may** be an innate trait you’re making excuses for bigotry. Admission of ignorance = making excuses for bigotry. Duly noted. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/95 "2005-11-30T05:34:00Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Again and again and again and again my problem is not with whether they like or dislike or approve or disapprove of me but the fact they were rude and obnoxious. Bullshit. Most of your posts have been about homophobia, not rudeness in movie theaters. Despite your attempts to move the goalposts, this thread is about you stating that groaning, while seeing two men kiss, makes you a homophobe. > [@Sampiro](#): > > You see, there’s a difference between groaning inwardly (which isn’t literal, btw- the closest I’ve ever actually come to groaning inwardly was probably a stifled belch) and groaning out loud. Yes, and if we were talking solely about movie theater rudeness, you would have a point. The real argument is about their “disgust” with what they saw, not that their reaction was audible. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Uh… I definitely assume that people who groan OUT LOUD at male homosexuality have something against homosexuality. I would also assume people who groan at an interracial kiss are racist. Whether they hate or discriminate against them I make no speculation towards, particularly the latter as it would depend much on their station in life. Racism and homophobia are not the same. Either way, a interracial couple is not analogous to two men kissing. > [@Sampiro](#): > > My prejudice against heroin addicts is neither irrational nor unexamined. It is a viewpoint formed because heroin addiction is demonstrably harmful to the individual using it, to their inner circle of friends/acquaintances, to society in general. Heroin can be demonstrably proven to be an objectively bad thing without having to resort to religion or cultural relativism or anecdotal evidence. No, heroin can be shown to be damaging to your health, it cannot be “proven” to be bad in any moral sense. > [@Sampiro](#): > > There simply is no comparison to groaning out loud at a completely non graphic male-male kiss. (Hell, Jesus received kisses from men, and not just from Judas- he berated his dinner host once for complaining about the actions of a woman bathing his [Jesus’s] feet by saying “she kissed me, you didn’t”.) The comparison is that many people think homosexuality is a sin, and is something they are morally opposed to. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Heroin addiction, police brutality and violent muggings are _arguably_ more abhorrent than homosexuality? Kiss my ass French-style Lucy Mae, and might I add go straight to hell. Were you born this fucking stupid or did you take private lessons with the retarded kid who lived down the street? Okay, prove to me police brutality is more abhorrent than homosexuality. How exactly would you go about doing something like that? I meant the hierarchy was debatable, but I can see how that wasn’t clear the way I wrote it. However, even when you interpret it the way you do, I don’t see why you’re so upset. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m sure that if I sat down and strained like Elvis after a CheeseFest I could make an analogy between the Wal-Mart after Christmas sale and the Anabaptist takeover of Muenster, but that wouldn’t make it a good one. There is **NO** good analogy to be made between disliking two men kissing v. violence v. drug addiction and medical research funding. The two things are apples and Yugos. You are saying things that you consider objectively worse should elicit more of a reaction from people. That the reaction should be based on the objective appraisal of each act (homosexual acts, muggings, rape, etc.). Using this logic, a person should be more concerned with heart disease than from anything else because it is objectively more deadly and is more likely to kill him/her. This concern should result in more funding to “cure” things that are objectively worse. But it doesn’t because people are concerned with whatever they’re concerned with, often without regard to some “objective” measurement. Trying to dictate what people should be moved, outraged, or disgusted by based on your arbitrary standard is stupid. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Wishing harm to people hyperbolically during a **RANT** is just a tad different from actually wanting harm to come to them. Yet, it still has no place in the OP. I never accused you of actually wanting to hurt people. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Such as voting against civil rights for them. Gee, I wonder how these people vote in elections when that’s on the agenda? Unless you have some evidence that they overwhelmingly vote against gay rights, or that people, who aren’t rude enough to audibly groan, vote for them, then you should shut up. You are just pulling shit out of your ass. I know is much easier to assume they are all hateful bigots, but I see no actual evidence aside from your delusions which stem from a persecution complex. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I have never called everyone who holds a contrary opinion a homophobe. I call people who groan audibly at two men innocently kissing homophobic. I don’t think this is unreasonable. I do, because it is based on no evidence. > [@Sampiro](#): > > Chatty Chatty Gang Bang- a term for a very talkative sluttily dressed college age girl. > > Booty Mamita- a term for a large girl with ineloquent speaking ability dressed (at least in this case) in tight party wear and possessed, in relativity to others, a big butt. Were she older I’d have called her a Booty Mama, but as she is younger (adolescent perhaps, Mamita, a diminutive.) You don’t see yourself as compromising the moral high ground when you make comments like these. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/96 "2005-11-30T05:52:18Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Bullshit. Most of your posts have been about homophobia, not rudeness in movie theaters. Despite your attempts to move the goalposts, this thread is about you stating that groaning, while seeing two men kiss, makes you a homophobe. And you have yet to offer a shred of evidence that it does not, in fact, indicate homophobia. Why else would they be groaning? > [@](#): > > Racism and homophobia are not the same. How are they different? > [@](#): > > Either way, a interracial couple is not analogous to two men kissing. Why not? > [@](#): > > No, heroin can be shown to be damaging to your health, it cannot be “proven” to be bad in any moral sense. It can be proven to be harmful. Homosexuality cannot be proven to harmful. Therefore, it is rational to put a moral value on heroin use. It is irrational to put a moral value on homosexuality, positive or negative. Puting a negative value on it is a form of bigotry. People who groan at the sight of two men kissing have clearly put a negative value on the act. Therefore, the people who were groaning were homophobes. > [@](#): > > The comparison is that many people think homosexuality is a sin, and is something they are morally opposed to. Right. Those people are called homophobes. > [@](#): > > Okay, prove to me police brutality is more abhorrent than homosexuality. How exactly would you go about doing something like that? I meant the hierarchy was debatable, but I can see how that wasn’t clear the way I wrote it. However, even when you interpret it the way you do, I don’t see why you’re so upset. Police brutality causes measurable harm to its victim. Homosexuality causes no harm to anyone, and has no victims. Therefore, police brutality is more abhorrent than homosexuality. > [@](#): > > You are saying things that you consider objectively worse should elicit more of a reaction from people. That the reaction should be based on the objective appraisal of each act (homosexual acts, muggings, rape, etc.). Using this logic, a person should be more concerned with heart disease than from anything else because it is objectively more deadly and is more likely to kill him/her. This concern should result in more funding to “cure” things that are objectively worse. But it doesn’t because people are concerned with whatever they’re concerned with, often without regard to some “objective” measurement. Trying to dictate what people should be moved, outraged, or disgusted by based on your arbitrary standard is stupid. This makes no sense at all. > [@](#): > > Unless you have some evidence that they overwhelmingly vote against gay rights, or that people, who aren’t rude enough to audibly groan, vote for them, then you should shut up. You are just pulling shit out of your ass. I know is much easier to assume they are all hateful bigots, but I see no actual evidence aside from your delusions which stem from a persecution complex. Is there anything, short of actual violence, that you _would_ consider evidence of bigotry? > [@](#): > > I do, because it is based on no evidence. What are your standards of evidence? > [@](#): > > You don’t see yourself as compromising the moral high ground when you make comments like these. How so? The first term refers to directly observed behavior, and the second isn’t noticably perjorative. How does that cede any moral ground to the homophobes who groan audibly when they see men kiss? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/97 "2005-11-30T05:57:36Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > **Martin Hyde** , there’s one bit of hypocrisy **Sampiro** pointed out that you seem to be overlooking. > > I’m not gay. I’m about as straight as they come, so to speak. I’m also not entirely comfortable with public displays of affection myself, although I’ve felt the temptation to indulge in them recently. What annoys me is that somehow male homosexuality is often seen as disgusting while female homosexuality is seen as less so and in some cases can even be seen as erotic. > > I’m a woman. I _hate_ rape scenes and brutality, which is one reason I avoid movies like _Pulp Fiction_ and one of many reasons _Troy_ stank. Nevertheless, they’re not all that uncommon in movies and, in the case of _Troy_, I didn’t read any objections to a woman’s falling madly in love with the man who she was convinced was going to rape her moments earlier. > > Yes, I know. Men and women are different and respond to things differently. That happens to be one of the things I like about being straight. The double standard shown by the people **Sampiro** talked about is still one thing I don’t care for. > > CJ I wasn’t necessarily overlooking them. I was just assuming they were covered when I talked about people having a gut-level reaction to things differently than others, across a wide spectrum of issues. My basic argument is, “you like what you like” and you “dislike what you dislike” and I think that’s just the way you are. I think a lot of that isn’t a choice. For example I have many white friends. Only one of them has ever dated a black man. Are all my other white friends racists? Is the fact that 95% of all couples I see uniracial indicative of the fact that most people are vile racists? I don’t think so. I think people have personal preferences. And one of those personal preferences may be, for example, preferring not to see homosexual love-acts. All I’m talking about here is what people like to see versus dislike to see. I’ve never excuse the people who went “eww” or whatever when they saw two guys kissing. Because you don’t need to act that way in a movie theater. Nor am I excusing people that you know, think they have the right to beat someone up because he’s kissing another man in front of them. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/98 "2005-11-30T06:02:16Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Is kissing really a sex act? I have a hard time considering it such, or being in any way akin to a facial. (Although it would make European greetings much more interesting if you could choose between a kiss and blowing your load in someone’s face). If kissing is a sex act, I bet I would have been disappointed in those roadside places in Indiana that advertised “Live Sex Acts.” > > Look, it’s two people kissing. Get the fuck over it. Go home and rent _Six Feet Under_, you’ll love it. At the very least, shut your pie holes about it. Suck it up and be a man about it, not a whiny little pussy who has to show fear about it. > > Homophobia, at least among American males, is a socially programmed experience. There is a period in early adolescence where everything undesirable is “gay,” where most emotions, particularly those expressed towards other men, is “gay.” > > What I find interesting about myself, in terms of self-reflection, is that I have a strong feeling of what some might call “homophobia” about the mincing, flaming, catty aspect of some gay (or straight) people’s personalities. I’m disgusted by that type of thing, but I couldn’t give a rat’s ass if they want to show guys kissing, fucking or sucking. I’ve tried to use the terms sex act/romantic act together because I don’t really know how I classify kissing, either. As for the rest of it, if you guys would read my posts I already said several times people shouldn’t react audibly to kissing in the theaters, well, at least to the point where other moviegoers will take notice of it. My point is while I think these moviegoers were badly behaved I don’t think we can say they were homophobes just because they were visibly grossed out by two guys kissing. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/99 "2005-11-30T06:11:04Z")
brickbacon- You see no analogy between disgust over a gay kiss v. disgust over an interracial kiss, but an analogy between irritation with homophobic groans is directly analogous to stopping funding for MS research in your logic. You cannot understand how police brutality can be said to be more harmful than a gay kiss… You are just simply too lobotomized-Chihuahua stupid or too batshit crazy to attempt to debate. Take this as a victory if you wish; I’ll wager you’ve had few enough. ---
**Author:** ![Grelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a5b964/32.png) [@Grelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grelby)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952/100 "2005-11-30T06:18:51Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Actually, in psych world, the jury’s still out on that. But thanks for playing, and next time enjoy our delicious brewed decaf. > > But what does it matter? Whether genetics or socialization, some men are uncomfortable with the idea of men kissing men. Some simply don’t want to see it. A lot of men don’t want to see women’s menses, either. Or breastfeeding. If there’s a genetic component (which there probably isn’t), then it’s a socialization component, which likely happened in very early childhood. Few kids have complete control over how they are raised, so to hold them accountable for their deep prejudices is foolhardy and irresponsible. Wouldn’t it make more sense to judge people on what they do with those prejudices when they are adults? I am _quite aware_ that “the jury is out” on this question. Would you be happier if I said that there is no **convincing** evidence? The fact remains that none of the psychologists, anthropologists or sociologists who like to use biology to explain behavior can identify a pathway from DNA to “being grossed out by gay men kissing,” or, “doing well on the SATs,” nor do I see any reason to believe that such a direct path exists. Psychology is a valuable science, but the continuing popularity of biologically reductionist theories in the field is puzzling to me. Perhaps I just had a really crappy textbook when I took a course in it, but I found the polarity of all the different theories of behavior and consciousness to be troubling. Apparently, there is no room for restricting your theories to testable notions, or to observations supported by the data in psychology. Cute. But that’s neither here nor there. You’re right, it is irresponsible to hold people accountable for deep prejudices. No, wait, that’s bullshit. No it isn’t irresponsible! Or foolish! Or, I should say, it’s not irresponsible to hold people accountable for the inappropriate expression of deeply held prejudices. Strange, though - isn’t that what you’re saying? “It’s what people do with these prejudices.” Well, **DUH**. And what I’m saying, in agreeing with the OP, is that loudly proclaiming your disgust at a gay kissing scene in Rent while sitting in the middle of a crowded theater is inappropriate! If someone is squicked out, fine. They can even squirm quietly in their seat, if that will help. But when you cross the line into saying “eewww!”, you’ve turned yourself from an uncomfortable but respectful person into an uncomfortable dick. There’s no call to be a dick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pgh-13-pathetic-groaning-homophobes-who-act-like-theyre-13/332952.md?page=6)