# Phantom Menace Is The Worst Film Ever Made **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988 "2015-03-02T05:38:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/101 "2015-03-06T23:06:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Cut the “story” out of Pearl Harbor and it’s quite a good reenactment of the attack. Not even close- I’ll give you a 'adequate". Watch _Tora, Tora, Tora!_ and you’ll see a great reenactment of the attack. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/102 "2015-03-07T03:07:11Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > **TPM** is the **Star Wars** movie that has not only Jar Jar, but a freakin’ _fart joke_ in it. Therefore, it’s automatically worse than **AOTC**. Return of the Jedi has two burp jokes in it, so where does that place it on the list? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/103 "2015-03-07T06:28:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, TPM wasnt a bad film at all. But it\* was\* a huge let down. We were all hoping for the magic, the excitement we had when we watched the original three. And that wasnt going to happen as we were all 20 years older. It had some solid moments, but it was uneven, had too much JarJar and it wasnt what we expected or were looked forward to. Naturally we thought that the film series would continue maturing as we did and as the first three showed such promise of doing. And as others have pointed out, this simply isn’t true, and it’s provably not true. The original trilogy were all hugely popular with adults when they came out and were nominated for frekain’ academy awards. They were good movies in their own right for both adults and chidlren and have held up remarkably well. In contrast, movies that were only popular with kids at the time have not held up for adults with time. So any criticism based on the idea that TPM fails only when compared to the expectation of the same excitement as experienced as child is provably incorrect. TPM is really bad movie in its own right. There was no characterisation. The plot was incomprehensible. The actions of the characters were inconsistent, illogical and incomprehensible. The individual scenes were confusing and poorly stitched together. There was no overarching story arc. There was no character development. I could keep going all day. TPM was not a “6”. All it had going for it were some good SFX and a ocuple of god actors doing their best with shitty dialogue. On every other level it fails. It’s not a good adults movie because of the lack of characterisation, emotional depth, crappy dialogue and and illogical character actions. It’s not a good kids movie because of the lack of strong characters, the boring plotline and the inconsistent pacing. If it weren’t for the SW label, TPM would only ever have scene limited release. It was really that bad. It obviously wasn’t literally the worst movie ever. It wasn’t even the worst big budget movie ever. But it certainly wasn’t a 6, which implies better than average for a cinematic release. It is strictly straight-to-video quality. If not for the SW label it would rate 4 at best: a failure on almost every level, marginally watchable. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/104 "2015-03-09T01:54:56Z")
People have got to get over their hatred of the last 3 SW movies. People are just way too upset about them. Some folks act as if George Lucas came to their house and killed their kids or something. It’s just pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/105 "2015-03-09T18:02:06Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Also adding…the Emperor does indeed say, “now, young Skywalker…you will die.” Then unleashes the kill shots. I always assumed that Darth Vader had been so deep in the dark side for so long that it was basically intertwined with his soul. Take away the dark side and he just can’t survive. That seems more poetic although less actually sensible than the idea that the lightning fried his circuits. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/106 "2015-03-09T18:04:13Z")
I take it you haven’t seen “The Room” yet? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/107 "2015-03-09T18:36:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I take it you haven’t seen “The Room” yet? I think we are mainly focused on movies that were studio produced films with a budget. I know Phantom Menace was actually independent, but it was such a huge sum of money that it was in the same category. That’s why I count Battlefield Earth, but not Birdemic or the Room. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/108 "2015-03-09T18:37:48Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > People have got to get over their hatred of the last 3 SW movies. People are just way too upset about them. Some folks act as if George Lucas came to their house and killed their kids or something. It’s just pathetic. It’s nice that, for the first time in my life, I can look at someone else and say, “I think you’re a little too invested in _Star Wars_.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/109 "2015-03-09T19:06:53Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > And as others have pointed out, this simply isn’t true, and it’s provably not true. > > T. And why are you posting rants about a SIXTEEN year old “4 out of ten” film? \*Because your expectations were crushed. \* I was with kids who never saw the first three and they quite enjoyed the 3 prequels. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/110 "2015-03-09T19:09:42Z")
My kids also enjoy the prequels. They also like sour patch kids. I believe their tastes are lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/111 "2015-03-09T19:50:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And why are you posting rants about a SIXTEEN year old “4 out of ten” film? \*Because your expectations were crushed. > \* I think you’re correct that, no matter how good the prequels might have been, they’d have suffered in comparison to a quarter century of expectations. That doesn’t change the fact that, on the balance, there are _really not very good movies._ > [@](#): > > I was with kids who never saw the first three and they quite enjoyed the 3 prequels. How old are those kids now, and what do they currently think about the prequels? ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/112 "2015-03-09T19:54:47Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The original trilogy were all hugely popular with adults when they came out and were nominated for frekain’ academy awards. They were good movies in their own right for both adults and chidlren and have held up remarkably well. In contrast, movies that were only popular with kids at the time have not held up for adults with time. I disagree with most of your rant, but you’re spot-on in this paragraph. I’m always baffled when people insist that _Star Wars_ was a children’s film and it belongs to the generation that grew up with it and blah blah blah. Do they think that the entire population of the Earth was 6 years old in 1977? I was in college when Star Wars was released. I saw it with my friends on opening night in a theater crammed with adults (there may have been kids there, but I don’t remember seeing any). After the movie we went to a bar and drank beer as we discussed what we had just seen. The only people who thought it was a kiddie movie were a few sourpuss film critics. > [@Blake](#): > > TPM is really bad movie in its own right. There was no characterisation. The plot was incomprehensible. The actions of the characters were inconsistent, illogical and incomprehensible. The individual scenes were confusing and poorly stitched together. There was no overarching story arc. There was no character development. When I read stuff like this, I wonder if there’s another, completely different movie called _The Phantom Menace_ that I haven’t seen. The one I saw had some problems, and it’s definitely my least-favorite Star Wars film, but it isn’t remotely as bad as you make it sound. > [@Blake](#): > > I could keep going all day. I don’t doubt that. This thread reminds me of people who are still obsessing over their ex 15 years after the breakup. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/113 "2015-03-09T19:59:29Z")
Hey, Janet was a total bitch and the world needs to know about it for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/114 "2015-03-09T20:04:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That doesn’t change the fact that, on the balance, there are _really not very good movies._ That’s a subjective statement, not a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/115 "2015-03-09T20:12:52Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > That’s a subjective statement, not a fact. In my opinion, it’s a fact. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/116 "2015-03-09T20:15:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think you’re correct that, no matter how good the prequels might have been, they’d have suffered in comparison to a quarter century of expectations. That doesn’t change the fact that, on the balance, there are _really not very good movies._ > > How old are those kids now, and what do they currently think about the prequels? Well, like I said they were maybe a “6”, which to me means “_not very good_” but “fun” films. 21-26 and Dunno, I’ll ask. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/117 "2015-03-09T20:23:11Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > My kids also enjoy the prequels. > > They also like sour patch kids. I believe their tastes are lacking. You may hate on Phantom Menace You may hate on Star Wars But you leave Sour Patch Kids out of this! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Winkler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@The\_Winkler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Winkler)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/118 "2015-03-12T06:15:38Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Return of the Jedi has two burp jokes in it, so where does that place it on the list? Phantom Menace had _two_ toilet jokes: the one already mentioned and the one where Jar Jar steps into doggie do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Winkler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@The\_Winkler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Winkler)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/119 "2015-03-12T06:20:16Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I always assumed that Darth Vader had been so deep in the dark side for so long that it was basically intertwined with his soul. Take away the dark side and he just can’t survive. That seems more poetic although less actually sensible than the idea that the lightning fried his circuits. I actually like this explanation. Vader’s life support getting fried? You mean they have all that technology and they couldn’t even jury-rig the thing until they could get him a new one? And as badly as Anakin was injured in ROTS, he was breathing just fine on his own. Edit: TPM wasn’t a six. It wasn’t even a four. I’d give it a zero if that’s allowed. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988/120 "2015-03-12T08:35:38Z")
I’m certainly no Star Wars nerd, but are there really people that think TPM was \*not \*a mess of a film in terms of plot and characterization and all that other important film stuff? Having seen the wretched thing, I would find it very hard to agree with the idea that its anywhere near a 6 out of 10. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phantom-menace-is-the-worst-film-ever-made/713988.md?page=7)