# Pharmaceuticals creating illness? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694 "2003-10-31T18:06:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/21 "2003-11-01T23:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DSeid \* > \*\*First off, yes. The success at reducing serious bacterial illnesses and tuberculosis, the cleanliness of our homes, is associated with more allergies and auto immune diseases. \*\* I’ve read that our use of antibiotics has led to more resistant strains of TB and other infectious diseases. This is one drawback to modern medicine. There have been a lot of articles about overprescription of antibiotics, such as [this one from the CDC:](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/hip/Aresist/am_res.htm) > [@](#): > > CDC and other healthcare organizations have developed guidelines for the use of antibiotics in hospitals; however, some research indicates that antibiotics are being used more than the guidelines recommend. For example, one recent study indicated that as much as 60% of the hospital prescriptions for one of these drugs, vancomycin, are not in accordance with the guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![presidebt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@presidebt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/presidebt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/22 "2003-11-01T23:32:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*Personally, I think the rise in allergy cases is partially caused by the cleanliness of the American home. We’re not exposed as children to the amount of allergens our grandparents were, and thus don’t build up an immunity to it. > > \*\* Excellent point **Lissa**. Another part of the problem (as it relates to allegies) are [trends in landcaping.](http://www.life.ca/nl/85/gardens.html) Relevant quote: > [@](#): > > He [Thomas Ogren] says homeowners and commercial landscapers like male clone trees because they are “litter-free”, meaning they do not drop seeds, seed-pods, or fruit on lawns and sidewalks. However, these male plants all produce large amounts of allergenic pollen. Great topic for discussion, btw. And \*\* hlanelee,\*\* you beat me to it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/23 "2003-11-02T00:30:06Z")
I took Lamisil because my feet were so god damn ugly without it that I was literally embarassed to ever take off my shoes anywhere but inside my own house where nobody would see it. If it makes me pathetic for buying into the commercial, then whatever. I dealt with that shit for ten years before I even knew there was anything that existed that could fix it. Now I don’t get ingrown toenails and I’m not afraid for anyone to see my nasty feet because they’re not nasty anymore. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/24 "2003-11-02T03:34:50Z")
**catsix** , I’m really glad that you were able to find a medication to help. If your toenails were so bad that you wouldn’t take your shoes off, I would say that classifies as need. But my point is that the commercials imply that **everyone** who has toenail fungus should just be mortified by it and buy their medication. But I think a lot of cases just aren’t that bad. Heck, my fungus is so mild that if I’m wearing nail polish on my toes, you can’t even tell there’s anything wrong. Anyway, it’s not just the Lamisil that I’m talking about, I just used that as a convenient example that came quickly to mind. What about Valtrex? It’s a once-a-day medication to prevent and/or shorten the term of herpes outbreaks. The commercials would have you believe that anyone who is herpes positive should ask their doctor to prescribe this drug. Well, I’m herpes positive; had my first outbreak 15 years ago, have had two outbreaks since then. Do mild cases like mine really need daily treatment? Probably not. I certainly don’t take anything for it (I’m married and monogamous, so there are no further complications there). Mild cases of most maladies probably don’t need to be treated, but the commercials will never tell you that. Having said that, do I think the marketing should be more regulated than it is? No. I think most folks can make up their own minds. ---
**Author:** ![revolutionarily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ea924/32.png) [@revolutionarily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/revolutionarily)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/25 "2003-11-02T07:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by horhay\_achoa \* > **The same can be said for mental disorders. Just a few years ago bipolar disorder was something that I knew of, but wasn’t confronted with everyday. Now, I know at least 3 people that have it. Do you think mental illness is on the rise? Do you think it is even possible for someone to just be a little bit “F-ed” up anymore?** Have you ever had a mental illness? I’m not sure you grasp exactly how shit life can be with any of the currently recognised mental illnesses. Just letting people be “F-ed up” is cruel in itself, especially when there is treatment out there. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/26 "2003-11-02T12:48:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by revolutionarily \* > \*\*Have you ever had a mental illness? I’m not sure you grasp exactly how shit life can be with any of the currently recognised mental illnesses. Just letting people be “F-ed up” is cruel in itself, especially when there is treatment out there. \*\* **revolutionarily** , either you misunderstood horhay\_achoa when he (she?) said: > [@](#): > > Do you think it is even possible for someone to just be a little bit “F-ed” up anymore? or I misunderstood. What I took this phrase to mean is that modern medicine seems a bit too hasty to diagnose a problem as being so severe that it needs drugs to treat it. By a “little bit f-ed up”, I assume the OP meant that some people who have emotional problems suffer pretty mild cases, and are probably better off treated with counseling, sunlight therapy, physical exercise, etc. rather than given psychotropic drugs. I think this may be true. After all, it’s quick to write a prescription, but the other, non-drug iniclusive treatments take a long time. Many people who take these drugs need them in order to live productive, happy lives. But for some, other treatments would be safer and more appropriate, but the doctors are prescribing drugs instead, because it’s easy. Disclaimer: I’m not saying all doctors are like this. Just enough of them for it to create a problem. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/27 "2003-11-02T13:01:00Z")
Lissa, For tb it was actually the _underuse_ - people being inconsistent with the meds and incomplete courses - that has caused most drug resistance. And yes, inappropriate antibiotic prescribing has been, and continues to be, a problem. But not relevant to the point you are commenting on. The hypothesis goes one of two ways: - that populations of certain kinds of white blood cells (T cells) can develop into particular subtypes depending on what they are exposed to. Without bacterial and parasitic exposures of significance, they are more likely to develop down pathways that respond to allergic or autoimmune triggers. -that immune systems develop complex networks in response to early triggers which allow for later subtle responses. Without that experience the immune system overreacts to more minor allergic or autoimmune triggers. But in any case your speculation is well founded. No one argues however that allowing for serious bacterial infections and parasitic infections would be preferable. But a little early dirt isn’t a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/28 "2003-11-02T16:12:00Z")
It seems I read somewhere that the outbreak of polio was caused, or at least helped, by too-good hygiene. And aren’t some allergies, like food allergies, actually caused by exposure rather than a lack of exposure? I’m thinking of peanuts and the like. Julie ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/29 "2003-11-02T17:30:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by jsgoddess_ > And aren’t some allergies, like food allergies, actually caused by exposure rather than a lack of exposure? I’ve heard something like this, too. Primarily about poison oak and ivy and the like. But I have no clue, beyond the already-mentioned, which allergies are caused by exposure and which to lack of exposure; I have even less of an idea why this should be true. Maybe some medical/scientific type will pop in and try to explain. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/30 "2003-11-02T19:53:24Z")
Yes. Food allergies in particular are felt to be more likely with early exposure before a baby has a competent gut barrier to allergens. And the presumed belief had been that the same was true for respiratory allergies too but research has not panned that out. Want to be less likely allergic? Spend your toddlerhood on a farm exposed to lots of pollens, molds and animal danders. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/31 "2003-11-02T20:29:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by DSeid_ > Want to be less likely allergic? Spend your toddlerhood on a farm exposed to lots of pollens, molds and animal danders. I _would_ like to be less allergic. Next time I’m reincarnated, I’ll keep this advice in mind:D ---
**Author:** ![John\_Harrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5ac83/32.png) [@John\_Harrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Harrison)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/32 "2003-11-02T21:42:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \* > \*\*And aren’t some allergies, like food allergies, actually caused by exposure rather than a lack of exposure? I’m thinking of peanuts and the like. > \*\* Well, pollen allergies aren’t always caused by lack of exposure, but it is a current theory about how some people develop them. You can be born allergic to many things (food, pollen, etc). Modern food processing has quite a bit of cross contamination of the big food allergies (peanut, egg, wheat), which has caused more problems for allergic children as of late. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/33 "2003-11-02T22:30:17Z")
You cannot be born allergic to anything. You develop allergies after exposures. The issue is the finding that _early_ exposure protects against allergies to aeroallergens while \*delayed \*exposure is associated with more allergies. Although some people think that it is really the animal fecal exposure on farms that is protective. Fighting off those fecal microbes and all. (Back to the elephants eating their dung …) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/34 "2003-11-03T07:13:53Z")
There are about a jillion articles on the net about the problems with asthma in the Bronx. There does seem to be a correlation between high levels of pollution and asthma. This is from the _Atlantic Monthly_: > **[Does Civilization Cause Asthma?](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/05/does-civilization-cause-asthma/378183/)** > > Asthma is growing at an alarming and puzzling rate in industrialized countries, and the answers to the mystery of its origins may lie in our very attempts to prevent childhood disease I would say that Bush is probably not known for being friendly to the environment or for trying to rid the world of industrial pollutants. There is plenty of blame to go around. Do any of you know of any efforts by the current Presidential Administration to address the outrage that is going on in the Bronx? ---
**Author:** ![Lady\_Eboshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/57b2e6/32.png) [@Lady\_Eboshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lady_Eboshi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/35 "2003-11-03T18:40:48Z")
[Drug for All Reasons](http://www.utne.com/pub/2003_118/promo/10617-1.html) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/36 "2003-11-03T19:09:13Z")
Some of us who have been diagnosed “mentally ill” would indeed prefer to be left to our devices, “fucked up”, rather than being subjected to psychiatric medication, electroshock, and psychiatric incarceration. And we’re organized (well…for us, we’re organized :)) and we vote and we lobby. Psychiatric pharmaceuticals have helped some people. They have hurt some people. They definitely have a very high incidence of iatrogenic complications (i.e., they cause temporary or permanent problems as side effects ranging from causing bad mood swings or psychosis themselves to permanent brain damage to death). Intelligent people who study their own condition and know their own meds well often find them indispendable. Yet others among us would as soon swallow rat poison. I would prefer that those of you who choose to take psych meds that are prescribed for you, and who benefit from them, refrain from speaking as if on behalf of all the psychiatrically diagnosed. It is a rare post of mine that denies that psychiatric medicine can ever do anyone any good. There is scant likelihood that psychiatric pharmaceuticals will be made illegal or otherwise rendered unavailable. In contrast, the threat of having them imposed on the unwilling is real and current, and the damage done is genuine at the physical, political, and psychological levels. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/37 "2003-11-04T12:45:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by horhay\_achoa \* > My girlfriend, who is very liberal, thinks it is because of all the pollutants that George W. is allowing into the air. Asthma does not develop in millions of people overnight. Anyone who traces all current health problems to a president who has only been in office for a mere three years is remarkably proud of his or her ignorance of biology. However, these are exactly the same “minds” that make sure that astrologers and the Weekly World News stay in business. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694/38 "2003-11-04T14:46:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*Asthma does not develop in millions of people overnight. Anyone who traces all current health problems to a president who has only been in office for a mere three years is remarkably proud of his or her ignorance of biology. > > However, these are exactly the same “minds” that make sure that astrologers and the Weekly World News stay in business. \*\* Now, don’t be mean. Just because the young lady is wrong about something doesn’t mean she takes pride in her “ignorance or bigotry.” That describes someone who steadfastly refuses to look at any viewpoint beyond their own, ignoring any evidence that contradicts their views. For all you know, as soon as\*\* horhay\_achoa\*\* points out the logical failings of ther opinion to her, she’ll give a little embarassed smile and say, “I never thought of it that way.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmaceuticals-creating-illness/210694.md?page=1)