# Pharmacists and refusals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713 "2011-04-08T20:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/421 "2011-04-13T20:58:44Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Most Planned Parenthood locations\* don’t\* offer abortions, and it’s the smallest segment of their business, so saying that Planned Parenthood = abortion clinic is just incorrect on its face. Its not all they do but it accounts for over a third of their revenues. > [@](#): > > This was purely about the pharmacist deciding that _she had a moral obligation **not** to help a woman who had an abortion even if she was bleeding uncontrollably_. She wanted to punish the woman if she’d had an abortion. The theory that she refused to fill the script because the nurse practitioner was rude on the phone is nonsense; you don’t refuse service to a patient because a third party isn’t nice enough to you on the phone. And this is the problem. The pharmacist was not trying to avoid being involved in an elective abortion, she was declining to provide medically necessary drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/422 "2011-04-13T21:01:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The fact that such people consistently act to do so, and have for centuries. Sexism is hardly a new thing. And the fact that their behavior is consistent with nothing else. I’m not going to bend over backward to pretend these people are well meaning just because it’s taboo to admit how bad the Right is. Since when has it been taboo to admit how evil the right is? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/423 "2011-04-13T21:02:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not all they do but it accounts for over a third of their revenues. I think I’d like a second opinion. **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/424 "2011-04-13T21:02:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Right, because noone could reasonably believe that abortion is murder :boggle No, you can’t. Defining it that way goes against the standards we use everywhere else in our life. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Since when has it been taboo to admit how evil the right is? For most of my life. All my adulthood, certainly. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/425 "2011-04-13T21:06:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think I’d like a second opinion. > **Bricker**? What, he already pointed out what the ruling in this case was. Will you never stop hounding him?!?? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/426 "2011-04-13T21:06:44Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not all they do but it accounts for over a third of their revenues. Health Center revenue is a [bit over a third](http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Chart-shows-Planned-Parenthood-services-provided-and-sources-revenue/photo//110212/480/urn_publicid_ap_org77cbe7cd9de842889a4e52d0cc96e74f//s:/ap/20110213/ap_on_re_us/us_planned_parenthood) of their income. The health centers do a lot more than providing abortions so it cannot be said that abortions are a third of their revenue especially considering abortions only account for 3% of services provided. ETA: > [@](#): > > In fact, abortion services make up less than 15 percent of Planned Parenthood’s annual revenue. > > SOURCE: [http://mediamatters.org/research/201102180003](http://mediamatters.org/research/201102180003) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/427 "2011-04-13T21:12:22Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > _Perhaps_ there isn’t _hate_ in operation, I’ll grant that in individual cases there may not be a hate-based motivation. > > But when you hold the power of health and life over others, and you use that power to impose your morality in _direct opposition to their needs_ or to prioritize your morality over their needs, you **are** oppressing them. You are worsening their condition, however temporary or limited in scope that worsening is, in a fashion that runs entirely counter to the purpose of the profession you entered and remain in. Abortions are usually elective. They are very rarely therapeutic or medically necessary. > [@](#): > > This is especially important because the vast majority of pharmacists working today entered the profession _after_ oral contraceptives became available. In the course of their pharmacy studies, they must have learned that oral contraceptives are amongst the most commonly prescribed medications, that the majority of women will use them at some point in their childbearing years, and that they are prescribed for reasons _beyond_ contraception and in those cases are vitally important to women’s _health_. (Not that controlling fertility isn’t also vitally important to health as well.) If you’re not going to fill script for the pill you might as well have an ice cream store that doesn’t carry vanilla. I thought this whole debate was about teh abortion pill. > [@](#): > > Beyond that, their priorities are completely backwards. If it’s important to you to not dispense contraceptives _do not be a retail pharmacist_ in a pharmacy that sells contraceptives. And would it be OK if the pharmacy doesn’t carry the drug? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/428 "2011-04-13T21:18:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And would it be OK if the pharmacy doesn’t carry the drug? No, because the only reason outside of some all-male enclave they wouldn’t carry such drugs is bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/429 "2011-04-13T21:19:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Are other businesses the legally mandated only supplier? No. There are a lot of products and services that can only sold with a license, liquor comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/430 "2011-04-13T21:24:23Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Would you care to address [the problems with](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13684106&postcount=394) your formulation that allowing pharmacies to engage in discrimination against women is somehow different in allowing lunch counters to discriminate against blacks, except perhaps in the number of individuals effected? Please show me where anyone is discriminating against women, or is this another example of you promoting absurd and irrational fears to make a point? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/431 "2011-04-13T21:35:06Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I imagine a pharmacist who refused to dispense **any** medications would be rather useless to the store and I can think of no reason why they shouldn’t be fired. I don’t think a “reasonable accomodation” could be reached for such a pharmacist. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/432 "2011-04-13T21:40:10Z")
> [@villa](#): > > So explain to me why a Catholic pharmacist should be protected but a Christian Science pharmacist or a Christian Identity pharmacist shouldn’t. In a constitutional way of course. A christian identity pharmacist’s inability to dispense drugs is a religious requirement for which the emplyer cannot provide a reasonable accomodation. You’re FIRED!!! If you own your own pharmacy, you have just converted your pharmacy into a 7/11 that doesn’t sell beer, good luck with that. A Christian Identity pharmacist is discriminating against a protected class. A pro-life pharmacist says “I don’t dispense abortion pills” Some other pharmacist can dispense them or the customer can come back later. They can probably still be fired if a reasonable accomodation is not possible but its not illegal any more than it would be illegal to stop selling drugs altogether. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/433 "2011-04-13T21:41:07Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > absurd and irrational We’ve already identified what you mean by “absurd”:“Absurd hypothetical” evidently means “What the law actually says and explicitly allows, but I’d rather handwave away, if at all possible.” “Fearmongering” evidently means: “The behaviors explicitly allowed by the law that I would prefer to claim are impossible.” Likewise, your numerous errors have been pointed out to you [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13679148&postcount=296) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13683453&postcount=373) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13683955&postcount=387) (and IIRC a few other places as well). Feel free to correct your mistakes. Or feel free to claim that what the law doesn’t say is really what it meant to say or does say if you have a secret decoder ring, and what the law does say is something that it really doesn’t mean to say, if you only are Free of Fear and Absurd Hypotheticals. I do admit, however, I really enjoyed your claims that if a patient’s request for a prescription to be filled is denied by a pharmacist, that it hasn’t actually been denied if another pharmacist accepts it. Although, not quite as much as I enjoyed your claim that while the law doesn’t define “care and treatment” and explicitly sets up a situation where the denied prescription doesn’t have to be part of that care and treatment, that the Free Online Dictionary will show what their conduct will be. However, your claim that women aren’t the ones being discriminated against is not quite up to snuff. I mean, sure, it’s obviously false but is it comedic? Unfortunately I’m afraid it’s just moderately silly. You can bump it up a notch if you’d like to argue that men are also being refused their morning-after pills. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/434 "2011-04-13T21:43:31Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > BTW, personally I think Plan B should be sold in exactly the same way as every other medication which doesn’t require a doctor’s prescription and don’t understand why the FDA came up with this hybrid system except that it’s clearly political and not medical. Which would eliminate this whole issue regarding Plan B. But I never hear anyone on either side talk about putting pressure on the FDA/politicians to change that. I don’t understand why plan B is OTC while the pill is not. In other countries a month’s supply of the pill is less than $5, here its like $2/day or something. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/435 "2011-04-13T21:47:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Forget about closing up shop. They should have their license revoked and be forbidden from any job in the medical sector. And imprisoned if someone is hurt or killed because of their bigotry. They are a danger to the community. Right, so this hypothetical pharmacist (who must be the only pharmcist within miles if their regfusal to dispense a drug has that sort of dangerous effect) should close up shop and now the diabetic can’t get their insulin and the caner patient can’t get his anti cancer drugs, etc. Thats better in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/436 "2011-04-13T21:49:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Absolutely. > > If you cannot do the job then do not do the job. > > You may claim this could leave an area without a pharmacist but I believe in the market system and someone else who is willing to do their job will fill the gap in short order. Then why the fuck won’t the market system also find someone to fill the gap on the abortion pill? This really just sounds like a crusade against people who oppose abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/437 "2011-04-13T21:50:26Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I would just must rather prefer that pharmacists cannot refuse to dispense perfectly legal medications. There may be 13th amendment problems with that. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/438 "2011-04-13T21:51:42Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > The little blobs of cells lack the neuro capability to agree or disagree with anything. The same can be said of a 1 month baby. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/439 "2011-04-13T21:53:11Z")
Slightly off topic, but in light of an earlier post I think we should consider an adjunct to Godwin’s Law. Call it **Der Trihs** ’ Law: the first person to bring up the Tuskeegee Experiment in an Internet discussion automatically loses the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/440 "2011-04-13T21:54:19Z")
> [@der trihs](#): > > no, as a matter of objective reality roflmao [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713.md?page=23)