# Pharmacists and refusals **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713 "2011-04-08T20:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/161 "2011-04-11T04:22:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That you can delude yourself into believing it’s OK is your business. But if a pharmacist chooses not to participate in the imoral destruction of a growing human being that is their right. What do you think of this case? > [@](#): > > The Catholic Church in the U.S. is facing uproar after excommunicating a nun who saved the life of a pregnant woman by letting her have an abortion. > > Sister Margaret McBride was also removed from her job as a hospital administrator after choosing life over religion. > > Sister McBride had given permission for a mother of four to have an emergency termination when she was rushed to St Joseph’s Hospital in Phoenix, Arizona, 11 weeks into the pregnancy. > > Doctors said the woman was suffering from pulmonary hypertension, an illness that could have killed her and her unborn child. > > Terminating the pregnancy was the only way to guarantee the mother would survive. > > Read more: [U.S. Catholic Church facing uproar after excommunicating nun who saved pregnant woman's life by allowing her to have an abortion | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1283480/U-S-Catholic-Church-facing-uproar-excommunicating-nun-saved-pregnant-womans-life-allowing-abortion.html#ixzz1JBWmrF3e) Imagine it was your wife or GF. Imagine it was a baby you wanted. Imagine the hospital you ran her to in a crisis told you they have a “conscientious objection” to terminating the pregnancy. There is no time to get to another hospital. Your wife/GF and baby die as a result of their refusal of service. Explain to me how that is ok and I’ll be swayed to your side. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/162 "2011-04-11T04:23:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The opinion of what defines “actual” people was defined by 9 people. That you can delude yourself into believing it’s OK is your business. But if a pharmacist chooses not to participate in the imoral destruction of a growing human being that is their right. No, it means they are woman hating scum. And what makes a person a person is defined by brain function, not nine people. So; what would you choose if it came down to saving a canister of a hundred frozen embryos or a six year old girl? The canister of embryos, or the little girl? If you really believe what you are saying, you’d lug away the can of frozen cells and let the girl burn. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > (my bolding) > Even if it means closing up shop? Forget about closing up shop. They should have their license revoked and be forbidden from any job in the medical sector. And imprisoned if someone is hurt or killed because of their bigotry. They are a danger to the community. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/163 "2011-04-11T04:24:56Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > (my bolding) > Even if it means closing up shop? Absolutely. If you cannot do the job then do not do the job. You may claim this could leave an area without a pharmacist but I believe in the market system and someone else who is willing to do their job will fill the gap in short order. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/164 "2011-04-11T05:06:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Absolutely. > > If you cannot do the job then do not do the job. > > You may claim this could leave an area without a pharmacist but I believe in the market system and someone else who is willing to do their job will fill the gap in short order. Hm…what about places like South Dakota where abortion services aren’t accessible? Or places in Appalachia or bfe Wyoming where doctors and specialists are scarce? Not all health care needs are filled. I would just must rather prefer that pharmacists cannot refuse to dispense perfectly legal medications. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/165 "2011-04-11T05:15:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, it means they are woman hating scum. And what makes a person a person is defined by brain function, not nine people. In your opinion. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Forget about closing up shop. They should have their license revoked and be forbidden from any job in the medical sector. And imprisoned if someone is hurt or killed because of their bigotry. They are a danger to the community. If you read the briefing they closed a shop over this. The children who were aborted would disagree with your definition of danger. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/166 "2011-04-11T05:25:22Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Hm…what about places like South Dakota where abortion services aren’t accessible? Or places in Appalachia or bfe Wyoming where doctors and specialists are scarce? Not all health care needs are filled. > > I would just must rather prefer that pharmacists cannot refuse to dispense perfectly legal medications. Not sure what your point is here. I am saying do the job you are required to do. If your job is ti dispense medications it is not your place to second guess the doctor’s orders (except when the doctor fucks up…it is a pharmacist’s job to act as a check on the doctor to make sure the prescription will not harm the patient). ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/167 "2011-04-11T05:25:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > In your opinion. > > If you read the briefing they closed a shop over this. The children who were aborted would disagree with your definition of danger. The little blobs of cells lack the neuro capability to agree or disagree with anything. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/168 "2011-04-11T05:27:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Not sure what your point is here. > > I am saying do the job you are required to do. If your job is ti dispense medications it is not your place to second guess the doctor’s orders (except when the doctor fucks up…it is a pharmacist’s job to act as a check on the doctor to make sure the prescription will not harm the patient). My point is that I would rather see strict enforcement of this idea in the hopes that people who can’t live up to it just won’t become pharmacists. It is not a pharmacist’s job to treat patients, nor is it a pharmacist’s job to act on his moral objection to medications. The latter just undermines the one with the actual medical degree. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/169 "2011-04-11T05:31:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you read the briefing they closed a shop over this. The children who were aborted would disagree with your definition of danger. How do these unborn children have an opinion? Everytime a woman her menstrual cycle a potential baby is lost. Everytime you jerk off that is sperm that could have made a baby. Indeed it is quite common after fertilization occurs (sperm meets egg) for a woman’s body to self-abort. Very common occurrence. And you have not answered my question above. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/170 "2011-04-11T05:36:08Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > My point is that I would rather see strict enforcement of this idea in the hopes that people who can’t live up to it just won’t become pharmacists. It is not a pharmacist’s job to treat patients, nor is it a pharmacist’s job to act on his moral objection to medications. The latter just undermines the one with the actual medical degree. It is the pharmacist’s job to fill prescriptions. They act as a check on doctors to know if the prescription is amiss or to spot drug interactions the doctor may not be aware of. It is not their place to second guess the doctor’s reasoning. If a woman has a valid prescription the pharmacist needs to fill it. If there is a problem the pharmacist needs to call the doctor and discuss it. At the end of the day it is the pharmacist’s job to fill the prescription. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/171 "2011-04-11T05:39:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is the pharmacist’s job to fill prescriptions. They act as a check on doctors to know if the prescription is amiss or to spot drug interactions the doctor may not be aware of. > > It is not their place to second guess the doctor’s reasoning. If a woman has a valid prescription the pharmacist needs to fill it. If there is a problem the pharmacist needs to call the doctor and discuss it. That’s what I’ve been saying. :o I disagree with the Illinois laws and rulings. I’d like to see that BS changed. Unless of course you want to open pharmacists up to malpractice suits. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/172 "2011-04-11T05:56:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Explain to me how that is ok and I’ll be swayed to your side. She had high blood pressure that raised her mortality rate but is a treatable disease. Normally this is a treatable disease but according to everything I read she was in serious distress and would have lost the child anyway. So I don’t see the comparison to the discussion. I agree with the administrator who was removed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/173 "2011-04-11T05:57:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > In your opinion. No, as a matter of objective reality, and going by the standards we use all the time except when we want to torment women. We don’t define a blob of cells as a person when it comes to removing a tumor, or an organ transplant, or an appendectomy, or a wart removal. That definition is used only as a justification for tormenting and humiliating women, it has no other purpose. > [@Magiver](#): > > The children who were aborted would disagree with your definition of danger. They weren’t children and had no opinions. Nor is using them as a weapon to beat women down the noble thing you are trying to pretend it is. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/174 "2011-04-11T05:58:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is the pharmacist’s job to fill prescriptions. They act as a check on doctors to know if the prescription is amiss or to spot drug interactions the doctor may not be aware of. > > It is not their place to second guess the doctor’s reasoning. If a woman has a valid prescription the pharmacist needs to fill it. If there is a problem the pharmacist needs to call the doctor and discuss it. > > At the end of the day it is the pharmacist’s job to fill the prescription. Period. There are states that allow suicide. A pharmacist should not have to participate in this act. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/175 "2011-04-11T06:05:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There are states that allow suicide. A pharmacist should not have to participate in this act. As someone once said… > [@Magiver](#): > > In your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/176 "2011-04-11T06:06:45Z")
> [@villa](#): > > As someone once said… What If they want to be shot in the head? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/177 "2011-04-11T06:21:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > She had high blood pressure that raised her mortality rate but is a treatable disease. Normally this is a treatable disease but according to everything I read she was in serious distress and would have lost the child anyway. So I don’t see the comparison to the discussion. I agree with the administrator who was removed. It is relevant because it is the same thing. Someone is withholding treatment because of their personal beliefs. The Pope can excommunicate me if he wants and I wouldn’t give a shit. But they excommunicated a nun. I am guessing she’d care about that. They sent a message so if you find yourself bringing your sister/wife/GF to the hospital they may choose not to provide necessary services because of their personal beliefs. Are you ok with that? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/178 "2011-04-11T06:23:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There are states that allow suicide. A pharmacist should not have to participate in this act. A pharmacist needs to fill a legally written prescription. What happens with it is not their concern. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/179 "2011-04-11T06:28:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is relevant because it is the same thing. > > Someone is withholding treatment because of their personal beliefs. > > The Pope can excommunicate me if he wants and I wouldn’t give a shit. > > But they excommunicated a nun. I am guessing she’d care about that. > > They sent a message so if you find yourself bringing your sister/wife/GF to the hospital they may choose not to provide necessary services because of their personal beliefs. > > Are you ok with that? A physician should not be forced to murder a baby to maintain a license. So yes, I’m OK with it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713/180 "2011-04-11T06:29:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is relevant because it is the same thing. > > Someone is withholding treatment because of their personal beliefs. > > The Pope can excommunicate me if he wants and I wouldn’t give a shit. > > But they excommunicated a nun. I am guessing she’d care about that. > > They sent a message so if you find yourself bringing your sister/wife/GF to the hospital they may choose not to provide necessary services because of their personal beliefs. > > Are you ok with that? Definitely not okay with a hospital refusing an emergency service to someone because of a religious belief. I think that if a “Catholic” hospital refuses to provide an emergency abortion to a woman who will die without it, then they should be prosecuted and shut down as a hospital. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacists-and-refusals/577713.md?page=10)