# Pharmacy and Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859 "2010-03-26T10:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/301 "2010-03-31T17:07:52Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You do this a lot. Really? Can you name two other cases? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/302 "2010-03-31T17:08:40Z")
Well, there are worse things you could be spending money on, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/303 "2010-03-31T17:14:04Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > First off, a doctor isn’t the middleman between an abortion and the woman. For that analogy to work the pharmacist would have to make the drugs himself. How do you figure? What about a doctor that refuses to prescribe birth control pills? In both cases, it is the doctor expressing his religious beliefs through his refusal to do something. > [@](#): > > Their deception of those who need medicine is a despicable pushing of their views on everybody else. You make it sound like most people are being prescribed birth control pills for therapeutic or life preserving reasons. > [@](#): > > If religion is interfereing with the job, then you quit the job. You don’t try to tailor the job to the religion. I just want to get this straight, if something is a matter of conscience or preference, I can fire you if it interferes with your job? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/304 "2010-03-31T17:19:05Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Actually yes, I’d be fine with that. Let people know how they operate the place and the people can choose whether or not they want to partake in its services. I would be ok with a Muslim-operated taxi service that is easily recognizable and publicizes it’s policy of no dogs. Personally, I see them as no different than the KKK, but that group, despite their evil, should be allowed to exist since they don’t really make any bones about their racism OK so you don’t have a problem with people acting on their religious convictions, your problem is that it is not advertised well enough because you think that if people had to advertise that they didn’t sell birth control pills (or sell morning after pills or perform abortions), then it would drive them out of business? Are you kidding? In some parts of the country (the parts where this sort of crap is most likely to happen), this would probably boost sales. BTW, I don’t get the whole muslim taxi with a no dogs policy = evil KKK reference. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/305 "2010-03-31T17:24:46Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Well, doctors are a different case - to the best of my knowledge (and I am open to correctiong from pharmacists here) there is no specialist skill set required to dispense contraceptive drugs in response to a prescription that are not required to dispense antibiotics, for example. While I agree that doctors deserve a bit more professional deference than pharmacists, its not like pharmacists are merely glorified cashiers. What is the difference between a doctor that refuses to prescribe birth control pills to a pharmacist that refuses to fill such a prescription? Should we force doctors to prescribe birth control pills on demand as long as there are no contraindications? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/306 "2010-03-31T17:33:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > While I agree that doctors deserve a bit more professional deference than pharmacists, its not like pharmacists are merely glorified cashiers. What is the difference between a doctor that refuses to prescribe birth control pills to a pharmacist that refuses to fill such a prescription? Should we force doctors to prescribe birth control pills on demand as long as there are no contraindications? Will you please stop this crap. It doesn’t make you look any better. I have specifically said earlier I respect pharmacists, and I consider it to be a worthy profession. Like other professions, especially those that can result in people’s death, it is subject to regulation. I am not, and have never, called them “glorified cashiers.” So please stop the insulting implications that I have. Once again, doctors and pharmacists are different, and this is no knock on pharmacists. Professions should not have the same regulations, as the situations they face differ. I explained earlier why I felt that the hypo you are putting about doctors was not relevant. Changing it hasn’t made it any more relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/307 "2010-03-31T17:34:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > While I agree that doctors deserve a bit more professional deference than pharmacists, its not like pharmacists are merely glorified cashiers. What is the difference between a doctor that refuses to prescribe birth control pills to a pharmacist that refuses to fill such a prescription? Should we force doctors to prescribe birth control pills on demand as long as there are no contraindications? Probably - but the Church Amendments and the 1996 Public Health Service Act prohibit the federal government from discriminating against medical providers who receive public funds on the grounds that they refuse to offer abortion services. I expect the same principle could be expanded to include providers who don’t receive federal funds. I don’t know if it could be expanded to include birth control, though I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/308 "2010-03-31T17:34:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll tell you one thing… I was mildly on the fence about this issue before this discussion, but the bland arrogance and intransigence displayed in this thread has opened my eyes. I’m not a pharmacist; I don’t even KNOW a pharmacist, but today I’m going to find an organization that’s devoted to protecting a pharmacist’s right to choose what products to stock and sell, and donate money to them. > > Yes. I have become Pro-Choice, insofar as pharmacies are concerned. You anti-choicers have really got my goat. > [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I want to make a donation a get the newsletter. I can’t claim to have been on the fence prior to this thread, but I hadn’t given it much thought. I mean OF COURSE we wouldn’t force pharmacy owners to carry prescriptions (or any product) that they did not want to sell, for whatever reason. Apparently that’s not as obvious to others as it is to me, and I found the opposition, frankly, pretty chilling – not just in terms of religious freedom but in terms of basic economic freedom to not sell what you don’t want to sell. So Bricker, if you find “organization that’s devoted to protecting a pharmacist’s right to choose what products to stock and sell” please post it here or PM me; I’d like to support them too. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/309 "2010-03-31T17:36:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought so too, but nobody seems to want to address it. I did. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/310 "2010-03-31T17:38:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now, thanks to this discussion, I intend to financially support an organizations that will further this cause, something I have not done before. I’m interested to see if there is an organization seeking financial support that has the same view on this. Aren’t the campaigns generally (resulting in some of the laws you cited earlier) to permit individual employees the right of “conscience” when required by their employer to supply birth control? I wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t any organizations out there campaigning to maintain the _status quo_. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/311 "2010-03-31T17:40:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think we’re moving towards a general acceptance, if not consensus, that the pharmacy should be allowed to dispense whatever it likes, and that a pharmacist should be fired for failing to dispense pursuant to the pharmacy’s guidelines. > > Fair assessment? Not I. At some point a pharmacist employed by Walgreens can refuse to dispense a drug based on their religion. If medicine advances to the point where you can safely have a first trimester abortion at home by taking a pill and wearing heavy flow maxi-pads, I don’t think you could force a pharmacist to dispense the drug or lose their job. Birth control pills are different but in my experience, noone is really worried about access to birth control pills, they are concerned about the implications this has on other things (like morning after pills and abortions). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/312 "2010-03-31T17:46:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Whatever it likes” in the context of the discussion - ie., it should be able to not sell things. > > 1. That _might_ be the case with regard to the pharmacists who refuse to fill prescriptions themselves and call somebody else over. It obviously isn’t in the case of those who refuse to fill the prescriptions and refuse to call somebody else over or transfer the prescription out. I agree with the above. When you go to your local Walgreens and see a dozen people behind the phyarmacy counter, do you know how many of them are pharmacists? Usually one. There is one pharmacist back there that has to sign off (literally) on every drug that gets dispensed. Refusing to return a prescription is clearly more than what freedom of religion allows for something like birth control pills (pharmacists are allowed to refuse returning prescriptions that they suspect are forged or are for controlled substances). > [@](#): > > 1. Pharmacists have not historically been expected to fill any legal prescription a customer gives them, assuming they stock the product? Pharmacists generally have great (unexercised) discretion to refuse filling a prescription if they believe might cause an adverse reaction or if they believe there is some osrt of abuse going on. Refusing to fill prescriptions for religious reasons is different but the idea that pharmacists are something like glorified cashiers is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/313 "2010-03-31T17:49:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not I. At some point a pharmacist employed by Walgreens can refuse to dispense a drug based on their religion. If medicine advances to the point where you can safely have a first trimester abortion at home by taking a pill and wearing heavy flow maxi-pads, I don’t think you could force a pharmacist to dispense the drug or lose their job. Birth control pills are different but in my experience, noone is really worried about access to birth control pills, they are concerned about the implications this has on other things (like morning after pills and abortions). I really don’t understand what your point is here, but in any case, you _can_ safely have a first-trimester abortion at home, using Mifeprestone/RU-486 (up to 60 days’ gestation, depending on the country you’re in). You just can’t do it in the US, because Mifeprestone is only available directly from physicians. [QUOTE=begbert2] I did. [/QUOTE] Well, yes, but I was hoping for something a bit more substantive. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/314 "2010-03-31T17:49:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So what? The Hippocratic Oath is a meaningless platitude. How many physicians revere Apollo and Panaceia? > > The modern version doesn’t forbid either, incidentally, and in fact expressly contemplates both. OK so should we force obstetricians who know how to perform abortions ( and in fact does perform medically necessary abortions from time to time) to perform elective abortions? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/315 "2010-03-31T17:51:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I agree with the above. When you go to your local Walgreens and see a dozen people behind the phyarmacy counter, do you know how many of them are pharmacists? Usually one. There is one pharmacist back there that has to sign off (literally) on every drug that gets dispensed. Refusing to return a prescription is clearly more than what freedom of religion allows for something like birth control pills (pharmacists are allowed to refuse returning prescriptions that they suspect are forged or are for controlled substances). > > Pharmacists generally have great (unexercised) discretion to refuse filling a prescription if they believe might cause an adverse reaction or if they believe there is some osrt of abuse going on. Refusing to fill prescriptions for religious reasons is different but the idea that pharmacists are something like glorified cashiers is incorrect. I have made both of these points already in this thread, and as far as I’m aware you are the only person using the phrase “glorified cashiers” or anything like it. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/316 "2010-03-31T17:53:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK so should we force obstetricians who know how to perform abortions ( and in fact does perform medically necessary abortions from time to time) to perform elective abortions? Is surgery in any way analogous to dispensing a prescription drug? Hell, dispensing birth control is, if anything, easier than dispensing anything else, since it comes in prepackaged containers and doesn’t have to be counted. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/317 "2010-03-31T17:58:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, yes, but I was hoping for something a bit more substantive. The substance was, it’s not up to the pharmacist to make that kind of judgement call; it’s not their business, and it’s not their right. If you want to be in the business of making personal judgement calls to decide not to give people casual prescriptions for contraceptives, become a doctor. By the time it reaches the pharmacist, the information on why the prescription was written is not available, leaving them in the position of doing one of the following: 1. deny them all. 2. deny none of them. 3. deny them at random. I think we can all agree that 3 is stupid, and 2 has them denying non-frivolous prescriptions. Presuming that the pharmacist does not intend to maliciously deny necessary and justified prescriptions, the only course is to put them all through. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/318 "2010-03-31T18:01:22Z")
That’s my point exactly. It’s not as though the prescription says, “Ortho Tri-Cyclen, but not for contraceptive use.” ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/319 "2010-03-31T18:08:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I think we can all agree that 3 is stupid, and 2 has them denying non-frivolous prescriptions. Presuming that the pharmacist does not intend to maliciously deny necessary and justified prescriptions, the only course is to put them all through. Or, presuming that the pharmacist feels morally obligated to not facilitate the contraception or early abortion of a fetus, the only course is to deny them all. I do agree that #3 is stupid though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/320 "2010-03-31T18:11:08Z")
So you’d be okay with a pharmacist denying a therapeutic prescription on the grounds that it would also work as a contraceptive? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=17)