# Pharmacy and Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859 "2010-03-26T10:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/321 "2010-03-31T18:14:01Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Or, presuming that the pharmacist feels morally obligated to not facilitate the contraception or early abortion of a fetus, the only course is to deny them all. > > I do agree that #3 is stupid though. In which case we have a pharmacist putting his religious aversion to _potentially_ facilitating the contraception or early abortion of a fetus above the health and safety of those customers who might have have the prescription for serious non-contraceptive reasons, right? Wow, that’s almost enough to make me side with **Der Trihs** ’s suggestion to politely ask them to get into some other line of work, preferably one that doesn’t involve medicine, or weapons or heavy machinery either. Serious question: is it possibly for a person to beceome a pharmacist and not _know_ that these medicines have other uses? If they were unaware it would neatly sidestep the moral conflict. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/322 "2010-03-31T18:17:37Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > I’ve had people drop their script off, and when I tell them it will be 15 minutes, they yell at me “What! All you have to do is pull a bottle off the shelf and slap a label on it, what takes so goddamn long?”… Honest question, why DOES it take so long? Isn’t it just finding the right bottle on the shelf and printing out a label? > [@Skammer](#): > > **Der Trihs** , I can’t decide if you are being intentionally obtuse or inflammatory, or if you’re really incapable of following this argument. Our hypothetical Catholic pharmacist is morally opposed to selling any type of contraception to anyone. A pharmacy opposed to contraception to the point of not filling oral contrception scrips is unlikely to carry condoms either. It’s not the same effect, of course, since you can get condoms in a box of Cracker Jacks, but it has nothing to do with discrimination against women. Of course you are so irrationally embittered against any hint of religion that you’re not happy unless you can call them misogynistic racist anti-semites at every opportunity. I’m pretty confident that even your side in this debate sees how ridiculous your argument of discrimination is. Like I commented above, if you can show me an example of a pharmacist giving birth control to a man but not a women, then you have an argument. Don’t bring blacks or Jews or gays into it; that’s an obviously irrelevent and insincere argument and you only do it to promote your religion-hating agenda, which is not the topic of this thread. I know we sort of ended our specific disagreement already, but in this I feel I need to speak up again. It doesn’t matter if the pharmacist refuses to sell any type of contraceptive to anyone. Since ONLY women can get pregnant, the ultimate effect of this policy is discrimination against them, and them only. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Until 1972 most pharmacies didn’t carry birth control pills and even today, birth control pills are rarely life or death medicine. One thing I always see at pharmacies is cigarettes, if a pharmacy refused to sell cigarrettes even though every other pharmacy in the country sold cigarettes, could it still call itself a pharmacy? In 1972. What year is it now? Cigarettes are plentiful everywhere else. If contraceptives were available over the counter at the supermarket, then you’d have a point. But we are talking about a specific item that is sold in a very narrow type of store that is sometimes needed for lifechanging reasons. Cigarettes aren’t even in the same ballpark > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How do you figure? What about a doctor that refuses to prescribe birth control pills? In both cases, it is the doctor expressing his religious beliefs through his refusal to do something. Then he should have become a mechanic. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I just want to get this straight, if something is a matter of conscience or preference, I can fire you if it interferes with your job? If your job description begins and ends with a function that you know will cause you moral discomfort, then it is your fault and entirely your own if you take that job anyways. The employer has no reason to accomodate you. What I would like in addition to these pharmacists to be fired, is a question in the interview process for getting that job asking if they would have issues with dispensing any prescription drugs. If the answer is yes, tell the applicant to take a hike > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK so you don’t have a problem with people acting on their religious convictions, your problem is that it is not advertised well enough because you think that if people had to advertise that they didn’t sell birth control pills (or sell morning after pills or perform abortions), then it would drive them out of business? Are you kidding? In some parts of the country (the parts where this sort of crap is most likely to happen), this would probably boost sales. Generally I’m fine with that, yes. My problem is with the deception moreso than the discrimination, because I believe that there would be at least a viable alternative within reason for these women to purchase the drugs if they knew ahead of time not to waste their time at Jim Bob’s Bibles N’ Blow. If, however, it becomes clear that entire cities, counties, or states take up this policy, then I would be against the restriction > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > BTW, I don’t get the whole muslim taxi with a no dogs policy = evil KKK reference. A while back a story appeared where a Muslim taxi driver would not let a person into their cab because that person had a dog and Muslims have a religious hatred of dogs. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/323 "2010-03-31T18:33:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Really? > > Can you name two other cases? I can name the glaringly obvious example of your outburst during the 2008 elections. It was memorable, and much of a kind with this. You allow your opponents a great deal of power over your thoughts. It’s a troublesome trait. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/324 "2010-03-31T18:39:11Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Honest question, why DOES it take so long? Isn’t it just finding the right bottle on the shelf and printing out a label? Most of the time taken to fill any given prescription is entering the information into the computer and waiting for authorization from the insurer. When I was a tech (1998-1999), about a third of all authorizations were denied, meaning you’d have to get on the phone and listen to hold music for about 45 minutes in order to talk to someone. Actually filling the prescription and slapping a label on it takes almost no time at all - say, a minute to find the bottle, 30 seconds to confirm the NDC number (National Drug Control number - the number assigned by the FDA to each specific drug), 30 seconds for the computer to check for interactions, and 2-3 minutes to count out the correct number of pills. Then, say, another 3 minutes to double check everything. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/325 "2010-03-31T18:52:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I can name the glaringly obvious example of your outburst during the 2008 elections. It was memorable, and much of a kind with this. > > You allow your opponents a great deal of power over your thoughts. It’s a troublesome trait. So, when you said, “You do this a lot,” you were referring to twice in the ten years, four months, and 22,869 posts I have made here? Um… you have “a lot” of insight. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/326 "2010-03-31T18:53:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, when you said, “You do this a lot,” you were referring to twice in the ten years, four months, and 22,869 posts I have made here? > > Um… you have “a lot” of insight. This is also “a lot” relevent to the topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/327 "2010-03-31T19:01:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Which is a good part of why I think that a pharmacist wouldn’t quit his job if the state told him to stock and sell contraceptives - he’s got a lot invested in his job. Doesn’t that sound a bit coercive to you? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/328 "2010-03-31T19:04:29Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > This is also “a lot” relevent to the topic of the thread. No less relevant than her original observation. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/329 "2010-03-31T19:04:34Z")
I always think it is wiser not to make public pledges to give money to a political cause as a result of actions from the opposition. All it does is get people like me to give money to the opposing cause (presuming I agree with it) to balance it out. Do people think NARAL or NOW is the right one for me to make my check out to? Maybe I should give to both just to make sure that someone on the other political side to me felt responsible for donations being made to a charity of which he or she disapproved. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/330 "2010-03-31T19:10:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, when you said, “You do this a lot,” you were referring to twice in the ten years, four months, and 22,869 posts I have made here? > > Um… you have “a lot” of insight. I haven’t read all of your posts. I wouldn’t care to. When someone does something big and splashy, then does the same thing again later, it’s noticeable. And it’s “a lot” compared with anyone else I encounter. You’ve made an impact announcing actions taken out of spite. Most adults wouldn’t admit to it, but you have. So, I noticed. And you wanted me (not me specifically, but obviously someone) to notice or you wouldn’t have said anything. Just as you wanted Obama supporters to notice that you were anti-Obama because of their horrible, horrible acts. You’re a success. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/331 "2010-03-31T19:11:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because he wants to distract from the fact that this issue is really about the religious persecution of women. If he admits that it is the rights of women being infringed, then the parallels between this and “No blacks or Irish allowed” become harder to ignore. > > So if they felt it was against their religion to serve a black man, you’d support their right to refuse such a man his medicine, right? Or is it only women who are acceptable targets? You are basically saying that several of the world’s widespread religions are prima facie discriminatorily sexist. How does that square with the fact that the people practicing this sexism have frequently been female pharmacists? Is it self hatred or is it just possible that religious belief are about more than just persecuting women? This issue isn’t about persecuting women no matter how much you want it to be, just like being pro-choice isn’t about murdering babies. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/332 "2010-03-31T19:19:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Garbage. They are forbidding women access to an important product, one aimed specifically at them and only them. It isn’t significantly different than refusing to serve someone according to race or nationality. It’s pure anti-woman bigotry. Making prostitution illegal is aimed at behaviour that is overwhelmingly engaged in by men. These laws are sexist, it targets male behaviour and is almost as discriminatory as refusing to dispense the pill (and if I hadn’t watched Deuce Bigalow, I probably wouldn’t have said almost). It might be worse because it is a state action that makes it illegal so you can’t legally get the services of a prostitute anywhere in the state. That is a real denial of service in a way that action by a private actor is not. Its anti-male bigotry. There is probably a better anaology out there somewhere but its ethe best I could do on short notice. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/333 "2010-03-31T19:20:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You are basically saying that several of the world’s widespread religions are prima facie discriminatorily sexist. This is a surprise to you in some way? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/334 "2010-03-31T19:26:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I haven’t read all of your posts. I wouldn’t care to. > > When someone does something big and splashy, then does the same thing again later, it’s noticeable. And it’s “a lot” compared with anyone else I encounter. You’ve made an impact announcing actions taken out of spite. Most adults wouldn’t admit to it, but you have. So, I noticed. For the heinous crime of gross exaggeration I hereby sentence you to read all of **Bricker’s** posts. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/335 "2010-03-31T19:28:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Again, how is the pharmacy supposed to know whether a birth control prescription is for contraceptive or therapeutic purposes? I don’t know but that how the line would be drawn in theory and greater minds than mine would have to figure out how that worked but IIRC any therapeutic use is “off label” usage and is most commonly prescribed to younger girls (I think it might have something to do with puberty). Therapeutic use is not really very common from what I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/336 "2010-03-31T19:30:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Again, how is the pharmacy supposed to know whether a birth control prescription is for contraceptive or therapeutic purposes? Well, does the person filling it look like a filthy painted whore who is going to Hell for eternity? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/337 "2010-03-31T19:31:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oooh. Handy. And what about the people who live in one of the nine states where prescriptions can only be refilled by mail? I’m not sure what you’re getting at. There are nine states that only let you get refills by mail? Really? Then what’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/338 "2010-03-31T19:34:14Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > The morning after pill is equivalent to taking 8-10 regular birth control pills. Literally. If a woman is lucky enough to have extra packs of the pill (well, most kinds) lying around and no Plan B, she can take 4-5 pills and then another 4-5 12 hours later, with the same effect (a reduced chance of pregnancy, depending on when it’s taken – and again, the closer to sexual activity it’s taken, the more effective, meaning any woman who’s got to race around the city or go to another town to find it has a higher chance of unwanted pregnancy and, therefore, there’s more chance she’ll want/require an abortion. Rather than taking regular birth control). Geez, thats ridiculous. So you need a prescription for the pill and you can get morning after pills that have 10 times the active ingredient of birth control pills over the counter? Why don’t they just make birth control pills over the counter as well? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/339 "2010-03-31T19:34:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > For the heinous crime of gross exaggeration I hereby sentence you to read all of **Bricker’s** posts. Can’t I just pay a fine? Community service? Bribes? How about a nice, shiny nickel? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/340 "2010-03-31T19:38:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know but that how the line would be drawn in theory and greater minds than mine would have to figure out how that worked but IIRC any therapeutic use is “off label” usage and is most commonly prescribed to younger girls (I think it might have something to do with puberty). Therapeutic use is not really very common from what I can tell. Pharmacists who won’t fill birth control prescriptions aren’t very common either, and yet here we’ve got a 5 page thread about them. It doesn’t matter whether it’s off label usage or not; it’s still a legal prescription. Off label usage just means that the drug manufacturer can’t promote that particular indication. It’s not as though I’m proposing a pure hypothetical here. > [@villa](#): > > Well, does the person filling it look like a filthy painted whore who is going to Hell for eternity? Well, I guess that’s a bright line. 😃 > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re getting at. There are nine states that only let you get refills by mail? Really? Then what’s the problem? Move the emphasis. “You can only get _refills_ by mail”, not “you can _only_ get refills by mail”. That is, a new prescription must be filled in an actual storefront pharmacy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=18)