# Pharmacy and Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859 "2010-03-26T10:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/81 "2010-03-26T22:44:39Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > This work for Jack the employee, and I might agree. But Suzie the owner can decide not to stock contraceptives. Which is the very question we are discussing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/82 "2010-03-26T22:51:34Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’m actually neither right-wing or conservative, but what I oppose is the government interfering with the pharmacist’s right to condust business as she sees fit. That IS a right wing position. The desires of a business raised to the position of rule by divine right, and screw the victim aka consumer. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > That’s life Ah, the compassion and principle of the Right. :rolleyes: In other words, “Screw you!” > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Is it wiser public policy to prefer no pharmacist at all in such a town versus a non-contraception-selling pharmacist? Yes. Both to discourage such behavior, and because someone like that should not be trusted with such a position. It’s a small step from refusing medical services to people you don’t religiously approve of, to deliberately sabotaging their medicine. Which I why I said such people should be blacklisted from all aspects of medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/83 "2010-03-26T23:12:37Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Or a Jehovah Wintness doctor who refuses to give blood transfusions? > > Imagine - a doctor who is also Christian Scientist. Not too swift. > > Why would anyone go into a job, knowing what the job involves, if they have some religious/philosophical/ethical objection to what the job entails? > > Would a conscientious objector volunteer for the Marines? Would a devout anarchist join the Police Department? Would the CEO of PETA work in a meat packing plant? > > If you KNOW the job conditions, and if you KNOW you object to them. DON’T Take the job. ## Does it mean that in order to have a job you have to accept every single possibility it might entail no matter how remote? Selling contraceptives is not such an integral part of a pharmacist’s job (o pharms owner’s) that not carrying would make a big impact on your job. A Muslim trying to get work at “The Happy Pulled Pork” would inevitably conflict with the job by its very nature. A conservative Catholic wanting to help a community who decided not to stock one specific series of drugs/treatments would not. How about we leave it to the townfolk? Vote yes (pharm - condoms) or no (no pharm) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/84 "2010-03-26T23:25:07Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > How about we leave it to the townfolk? Vote yes (pharm - condoms) or no (no pharm) That’s my plan - let the state and/or federal government build it into the licensing requirements, and if that means that you have to fill prescriptions you don’t want to, then tough. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/85 "2010-03-26T23:26:29Z")
@[**villa**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12271320&postcount=79): And you can not direct me to a case where those laws have withstood challenge. Nevertheless, a law requiring pharmacists to dispense contraceptives and abortifacients is not a “neutral law of general applicability.” It is rather a law designed to suppress the exercise of a particular religious view. Would every pharmacist be required to so dispense? How about the pharmacist at a geriatric center? Must she carry such medications, inventorying them and keeping them current? The law is quite obviously a reaction to the religious beliefs of others. Indeed, people here have justified it by saying “your beliefs should not affect my ability to get these medications.” But as _Yoder_ makes plain, and as _Employment Division_ did not touch, it is perfectly acceptable for one person’s religious beliefs to have consequences for another. What is not acceptable—expressly unacceptable in both _Yoder_ and _Employment Division_—is to craft a law directed toward suppressing the exercise of specific religious views. Nor, by the way, is _Yoder_ an anomalous case that could be overruled in one fell swoop; it represents a culmination of case law, including the famous Jehovah Witnesses cases such as _Barnette_ (JW student cannot be compelled to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and salute the flag). Although _Employment Division_ did not sustain a religious exemption, the fact pattern are vastly different. In _Employment Division_, a religious exemption was requested to permit engagement in what is otherwise socially disruptive, criminal activity. Here, the proscribed conduct is one component of a (anti-religiously motivated) regulatory scheme and whose defiance, that is, refusal to sell these medications, is not considered anywhere near as antisocial behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/86 "2010-03-26T23:29:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > That’s my plan - let the state and/or federal government build it into the licensing requirements, and if that means that you have to fill prescriptions you don’t want to, then tough. …or you close. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/87 "2010-03-26T23:31:55Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > …or you close. Sure. At no point do I endorse conscripting pharmacists and chaining them to their counters. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/88 "2010-03-27T02:36:16Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Selling contraceptives is not such an integral part of a pharmacist’s job (o pharms owner’s) that not carrying would make a big impact on your job. :rolleyes: 32% of all controlled substance prescriptions filled or refilled in the US are some form of oral birth control. Roughly 12 million women in the US had at least one birth control prescription filled or refilled last year, though not all had it prescribed for contraceptive purposes. You might as well claim that selling gasoline is not an integral part of a gas station attendant’s job. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/89 "2010-03-27T03:28:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > :rolleyes: > > **32% of all controlled substance prescriptions** filled or refilled in the US are some form of oral birth control. Roughly 12 million women in the US had at least one birth control prescription filled or refilled last year, though not all had it prescribed for contraceptive purposes. > > You might as well claim that selling gasoline is not an integral part of a gas station attendant’s job. (my bolding) What percentage of individual sales include contraception? What percentage of a pharmacy’s income comes from contraception? Your gas station example fails dramatically. A gas station…wait for it…sells gas. A better example would be that selling tea is not a integral part of a burger place’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/90 "2010-03-27T04:09:29Z")
You can look up those figures yourself. Mine are quite sufficient to disprove your contention. If you know of a burger place which serves tea with 32% of its meals, you’re welcome to make that comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/91 "2010-03-27T16:09:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can look up those figures yourself. Mine are quite sufficient to disprove your contention. > > If you know of a burger place which serves tea with 32% of its meals, you’re welcome to make that comparison. …and here I was thinking that debating was about convincing others (or at least trying, even with a dumbass like myself), not to reiterate one’s beliefs and say you’re happy with them. You could at least humour me with a cite. You didn’t say it was 32% of all individuals sales, you said 32% of all controlled substance prescriptions. The number is itself may be meaningless if controlled substance prescriptions account for 2% of all sales. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/92 "2010-03-27T16:18:19Z")
total U.S. medicine sales: 40 billion Oral contraceptives: 150 million condoms: 400 million. So, from a strictly economic stance it’s no biggie. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/93 "2010-03-27T16:43:10Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > a pharmacist isn’t a public employee. However, they have a government-granted monopoly, and thus are not truly private actors in matters touching upon their profession. Without the monopoly, it would be trivially easy to circumvent any given induhvidual’s game of keep-away – thus, preventing the abuse of the monopoly in this manner becomes a concern of the authority that granted it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/94 "2010-03-27T16:51:10Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > @[**villa**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12271320&postcount=79): > > And you can not direct me to a case where those laws have withstood challenge. Nevertheless, a law requiring pharmacists to dispense contraceptives and abortifacients is not a “neutral law of general applicability.” It is rather a law designed to suppress the exercise of a particular religious view. Not at all, any more than the laws against marijuana are designed to suppress the exercise of the particular religious world view of the Rastafarians or the laws against homicide are designed to suppress the exercise of the particular religious world view of the Aztecs. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/95 "2010-03-27T16:52:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, not necessarily. Pharmacists are required to check for adverse drug interactions and allergies and so on that the prescribing physician may have missed, and can (and should) refuse to fill such prescriptions. But that is not based on religious prejudices … and in general when any of my pharmacists has had an issue with the drug in question, he called and discussed it with my physician. [has happened twice - needed a substitute for midrin as they did not have any in stock and needed to order it, and i was standing there having a migraine, and just upchucked on the floor from the pain and needed something NOW, and another drug that they just plain didn’t stock at the time and wanted permission to give me the generic.] ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/96 "2010-03-27T23:23:04Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > However, they have a government-granted monopoly, and thus are not truly private actors in matters touching upon their profession. Without the monopoly, it would be trivially easy to circumvent any given induhvidual’s game of keep-away – thus, preventing the abuse of the monopoly in this manner becomes a concern of the authority that granted it. Agreed. to a point. I wouldn’t call it a monopoly, but I see your point. My point is still that if the law doesn’t forbid it, do it. If it does the owner faces choices that may edn up hurting the community more than his contraceptionlessness. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/97 "2010-03-28T02:45:07Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > total U.S. medicine sales: 40 billion > Oral contraceptives: 150 million > condoms: 400 million. > > So, from a strictly economic stance it’s no biggie. From my previous post (#66): > [@](#): > > Robert Laird, executive director of Divine Mercy Care, believes many of the estimated 50,000 Catholics within a few miles of the store will support its mission and make up for the roughly 10 percent of business that contraceptives represent in a typical pharmacy." Writing off 10% of your business as a pharmacy (plus whatever percentage of customers decide not to fill their prescriptions at a business that puts religious beliefs over service to patients as a whole) sounds like a biggie to me. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/98 "2010-03-28T02:59:58Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > However, they have a government-granted monopoly, and thus are not truly private actors in matters touching upon their profession. I’m not sure what you mean by a monopoly in this situation. They are licensed, but others can be licensed and sell them as well. I agree, they do bear some responsibility to the general public, but where that line is drawn is IMO open to some debate and still should fall on the line of giving private actors the right to decided some things for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/99 "2010-03-28T16:36:59Z")
For some reason this thread reminds me of the UK, where at least one pharmacy in each area needs to be open late (all night?). The newspaper has a listing showing what pharmacy’s turn it is that week. This is a common sense law benefiting the consumer, but would run into opposition in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/100 "2010-03-28T16:48:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > From my previous post (#66):Writing off 10% of your business as a pharmacy (plus whatever percentage of customers decide not to fill their prescriptions at a business that puts religious beliefs over service to patients as a whole) sounds like a biggie to me. Is there a mistake in my figures? Or jusy a nice single point of data that doesn’t agree with it? the total sales of medicines are 40 billion, are you saying contracpetives are 4 billon? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=6)