# Pharmacy and Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859 "2010-03-26T10:54:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/121 "2010-03-29T14:55:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If your job is to do something, then you do it, or else get a new job. If it’s a job, it’s up to the employer to decide what are the requirements. If CVS is OK with it, they should have the final decision. If it’s a licensing requirement then it’s not so much a part of the job, but a legal protection. If so, there should be enforcement written into law. We’re discussion where those lines should be drawn, and IMO reasonable people can disagree. But you’re already making the decision that dispensing contraception to everyone is a requirement of the job, and that has not been established yet. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/122 "2010-03-29T15:20:37Z")
> [@Cumberdale](#): > > If you’re going to quote someone, be sure to match it with the correct poster. I quoted **Bricker**. The correct poster was… **Bricker**. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/123 "2010-03-29T15:23:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I quoted **Bricker**. The correct poster was… **Bricker**. 😕 oops ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/124 "2010-03-29T15:29:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So what if every pharmacy in the Southeast decided to stop carrying birth control? Then there’s a golden financial opportunity for someone in the southwest to start a pharmacy that will sweep its competition to its knees, or a chance for a state-run pharmacy to be that rare government agency that turns a profit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/125 "2010-03-29T15:46:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Then there’s a golden financial opportunity for someone in the southwest to start a pharmacy that will sweep its competition to its knees, or a chance for a state-run pharmacy to be that rare government agency that turns a profit. You have missed the point entirely - though deliberately. The issue here is that the market does not always or even usually take care of things that the government would otherwise need to compel. That said, you may color me astonished that a conservative just proposed what amounts to a government takeover of a heretofore private industry. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/126 "2010-03-29T15:50:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You have missed the point entirely - though deliberately. The issue here is that the market does not always or even usually take care of things that the government would otherwise need to compel. > > That said, you may color me astonished that a conservative just proposed what amounts to a government takeover of a heretofore private industry. Takeover? What takeover? As long as the government is not permitted to operate at a loss, or ensure its “profitability” through regulation of prices, I have no heartburn with the government entering private industry in circumstances like these. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/127 "2010-03-29T17:19:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suppose I could. [Here’s one](http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad350.pdf) for the 12 million figure (warning: .pdf): > > I’ll have to keep looking for one for the 32% figure. It’s something dimly remembered from training at Eckerd (I used to be a pharmacy technician). > > Would you like to provide one for your figures, while we’re at it? I never questioned the number of women using the product and 32% is the REALLY important number. I botched my previous figure. The total med market isn’t 40 billion, it is [289 billion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry#Industry_revenues). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/128 "2010-03-29T17:41:44Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > ## Does it mean that in order to have a job you have to accept every single possibility it might entail no matter how remote? Selling contraceptives is not such an integral part of a pharmacist’s job (o pharms owner’s) that not carrying would make a big impact on your job. A Muslim trying to get work at “The Happy Pulled Pork” would inevitably conflict with the job by its very nature. A conservative Catholic wanting to help a community who decided not to stock one specific series of drugs/treatments would not. > > How about we leave it to the townfolk? Vote yes (pharm - condoms) or no (no pharm) But it is NOT remote, is it? Pharmacies carry birth control, rubbers, morning after pills, lots of stuff. How could someone NOT know that? I don’t believe it for one second. To borrow from a Monty Python routine: I want to quit the Army. It’s dangerous. There are people with guns. They were making fun of it, you seem to buy into it instead. It’s still a simple binary condition. You like the job, stay. You don’t like the job, quit. Whatever religious idea you have or don’t have, should not keep me from getting whatever I want/need (and which my religion might be OK with). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/129 "2010-03-29T17:57:13Z")
If I go to pharmacy school, get licensed, move to a one-stoplight town, set up my own business, and decide to sell nothing but aspirin and wart remover, there should be no laws against that. Go ahead and let me go out of business. The pharmacist in question is not discriminating against anyone (unlike so many of the analogies proffered here). If the pharma refused to sell condoms to black people or some other protected class, that would be different. But just refusing to carry a type of product in one’s own business is pretty fundamental. If there’s only one dentist in town but he refuses to do root canals, should the law force him to? Or is it up to market forces to drive him out of business or bring in a competing dentist? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/130 "2010-03-29T18:08:46Z")
Aspirin and wart remover are available over the counter, so you wouldn’t need a license (other than a general retail license) to offer them. Pharmacies, like it or not, are considered to operate in the public interest, even if they are profit-making enterprises. That factor comes with certain obligations. State bar associations require lawyers to perform some _pro bono_ work. Is that unfair? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/131 "2010-03-29T18:10:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Aspirin and wart remover are available over the counter, so you wouldn’t need a license (other than a general retail license) to offer them. > > Pharmacies, like it or not, are considered to operate in the public interest, even if they are profit-making enterprises. That factor comes with certain obligations. But who’s to say that one of those obligations is, “Sell contraceptives?” I am pleased to live in a state that doesn’t say that. That is the wiser choice. > [@](#): > > State bar associations require lawyers to perform some _pro bono_ work. Is that unfair? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/132 "2010-03-29T18:13:59Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It’s still a simple binary condition. You like the job, stay. You don’t like the job, quit. Whatever religious idea you have or don’t have, should not keep me from getting whatever I want/need (and which my religion might be OK with). Again, let’s not merge two ideas. I agree with your sentiment if you mean, “Someone else owns the pharmacy and tells me to sell the stuff or be fired, but I want the law to protect me in my job even though I don’t wish to follow my boss’ orders and sell the stuff.” But if you mean, “As a condition of being in business, the state will require all pharmacists to sell the stuff…” then I don’t agree. If I open Brickers 24 Hour Pharmacy and Legal Clinic, then I’ll sell what I wish to sell, and if you don’t want to patronize my store, go somewhere else. And luckily, the state of Virginia agrees with me on this last point. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/133 "2010-03-29T18:29:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Aspirin and wart remover are available over the counter, so you wouldn’t need a license (other than a general retail license) to offer them. > > Pharmacies, like it or not, are considered to operate in the public interest, even if they are profit-making enterprises. That factor comes with certain obligations. > > State bar associations require lawyers to perform some _pro bono_ work. Is that unfair? Just as fair as it is to require poor people to donate their time sweeping the street in return for welfare. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/134 "2010-03-29T18:45:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > State bar associations require lawyers to perform some _pro bono_ work. Is that unfair? Is it actually a requirement rather than an expectation, though? I didn’t think you could be disciplined for not performing \*pro bono \*work. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/135 "2010-03-29T18:47:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But who’s to say that one of those obligations is, “Sell contraceptives?” > > I am pleased to live in a state that doesn’t say that. That is the wiser choice. _The wiser choice_? In what possible sense is it “wiser” except in that it fits better with your personal world view? > [@Magiver](#): > > Just as fair as it is to require poor people to donate their time sweeping the street in return for welfare. I wouldn’t have much of a problem with such a requirement, in principle. > [@](#): > > Is it actually a requirement rather than an expectation, though? I didn’t think you could be disciplined for not performing pro bono work. Dunno about other states, but the Florida Bar requires active members to perform at least 20 hours of _pro bono_ work or donate $350 to a legal aid organization (I’m sure you can guess which option is more popular). Failure to do one or the other results in license suspension. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/136 "2010-03-29T18:52:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Again, let’s not merge two ideas. I agree with your sentiment if you mean, “Someone else owns the pharmacy and tells me to sell the stuff or be fired, but I want the law to protect me in my job even though I don’t wish to follow my boss’ orders and sell the stuff.” > > But if you mean, “As a condition of being in business, the state will require all pharmacists to sell the stuff…” then I don’t agree. If I open Brickers 24 Hour Pharmacy and Legal Clinic, then I’ll sell what I wish to sell, and if you don’t want to patronize my store, go somewhere else. > > And luckily, the state of Virginia agrees with me on this last point. The problem is, some of the laws do protect people for refusing to sell the stuff, even if the store wants to sell it. I’m still confused as to why you find some restrictions on the freedom of conscience of pharmacists acceptable and not others, though. I don’t think the argument I got the feeling you were making regarding racial discrimination (we have a general policy against racial discrimination, but not on supplying contraceptives) holds up. After all, isn’t passing a law requiring pharmacists to supply contraceptives as part of their licensing requirement making such a public policy? If I have misunderstood your argument, I apologize, obviously. Where I am in agreement with you (and even suggested it pages ago) is that the possibility of a central, government run, prescription-by-mail business seems like it would get rid of a whole lot of the problems here. I don’t know how one could replace the drug interaction warning function, but I am sure that isn’t insurmountable. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/137 "2010-03-29T18:57:39Z")
A prescription-by-mail business might be practicable for regularly refilled prescriptions, but for immediate-need stuff (pain medications, blood thinners, emergency contraception, etc.) it wouldn’t be much good. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/138 "2010-03-29T19:00:00Z")
True - it wouldn’t solve everything, but I think it would be a good idea all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/139 "2010-03-29T19:08:01Z")
[Somebody already thought of it.](http://www.express-scripts.com/) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859/140 "2010-03-29T19:48:50Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > But it is NOT remote, is it? Pharmacies carry birth control, rubbers, morning after pills, lots of stuff. How could someone NOT know that? I don’t believe it for one second. > > To borrow from a Monty Python routine: > I want to quit the Army. It’s dangerous. There are people with guns. > > They were making fun of it, you seem to buy into it instead. > > It’s still a simple binary condition. You like the job, stay. You don’t like the job, quit. Whatever religious idea you have or don’t have, should not keep me from getting whatever I want/need (and which my religion might be OK with). I know that selling contraception is by no means a remote condition. I want to quit the Army, they make me do a lot of paperwork instead of training. That is a more apt comparison. I agree with Bricker. John-at-the-counter serves at pleasure of his employer. If John cannot get around (legally, practically) his moral issues, then he should get fired. Sue-the-owner can stock what she damn pleases and the law allows. Her own moral views are more important to her than yours or mine. Still, nobody answers the key question: Better to have a pharmacy with no condoms or no pharmacy at all? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pharmacy-and-religion/533859.md?page=8)