# PhDs who are referred to as Dr, and those who aren't **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 3, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312 "2019-12-03T14:24:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/41 "2019-12-04T14:20:24Z")
Out of curiosity, are those of you who are saying that professors are called “Professor So-and-So” coming from a private, liberal-arts context? My experiences where the professors were “Dr. So-and-So” are from large state universities with a primarily engineering/science/business focus (Texas A&M and UT-Dallas if you really want to know). ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/42 "2019-12-04T14:29:15Z")
I’m a PhD scientist, and about half the people I work around are PhD scientists. Everyone from the top to the bottom calls us by our first names. If somebody calls me “Doctor Fiveyearlurker”, it is generally with sarcasm following my doing something stupid. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/43 "2019-12-04T16:02:35Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Out of curiosity, are those of you who are saying that professors are called “Professor So-and-So” coming from a private, liberal-arts context? > > My experiences where the professors were “Dr. So-and-So” are from large state universities with a primarily engineering/science/business focus (Texas A&M and UT-Dallas if you really want to know). I was called “Professor” at a small private liberal arts college in NJ. At the large public universities I attended, undergrads always called their professors “Dr” unless otherwise specified. TAs were always called by their first name. In grad school, I called my grad advisor by her first name. But I usually used “Dr” with the other professors, even though other grad students tended to refer to them by first name. As a post-doc at a large public university, I called all the professors in my department by their first name. Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/44 "2019-12-04T18:43:21Z")
I was called, and preferred to be called, “Professor FtG” in official contexts, esp. by unfamiliar undergrads and such. But at one place the students somehow thought “Dr. FtG” was the right thing to do and I couldn’t figure out a polite way to have them switch. Nowadays, I only use “Dr. FtG” in certain contexts. E.g., when the status might help like on certain legal forms or when booking airline seats. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/45 "2019-12-04T19:12:21Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Nowadays, I only use “Dr. FtG” in certain contexts. E.g., when the status might help like on certain legal forms or when booking airline seats. Has a flight attendant ever come to your seat and said, “Oh, thank God you’re here Doctor FtG, the passenger in row 32 is having a heart attack!” ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/46 "2019-12-04T19:49:51Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > That’s what I figured, and what I was trying to get the OP to clarify. In the government sector nobody goes from Steve to Dr. Brown just because they have a PhD, but they will go from Mr. Brown to Dr. Brown. > > In current events, Fiona Hill has a doctorate in history and was always referred to as Dr. Hill instead of Ms. Hill. I would imagine very few people on her staff call her “Fiona.” I think there’s probably a distinction when speaking to her or when speaking about her with close colleagues, and when speaking to or about her with more distant colleagues or in public. For example, one news story about Marie Yovanovitch, former ambassador to Ukraine – entitled to honorifics that flow from that position – mentioned that the people who worked with her all called her “Masha,” a nickname. But I’m sure that in more formal settings, or dealing with people outside of the embassy personnel, they used formal titles/honorifics. > [@OldGuy](#): > > In my experience with more than 40 years in Academia this is not at all true. Most everyone calls each other by their first name including about half the students. If they use an honorific, it’s Prof. not Doctor. In fact, it’s usually Professor even when that’s not technically correct. That is a lecturer with a PhD is called Prof. not Dr. if an honorific is used. > > Personally, the only time I use Dr. is when booking flights as I was told that airlines are reluctant to bump doctors. I have no idea if this is true or was true some 20-30 years ago when I was told so. > [@bump](#): > > Out of curiosity, are those of you who are saying that professors are called “Professor So-and-So” coming from a private, liberal-arts context? > > My experiences where the professors were “Dr. So-and-So” are from large state universities with a primarily engineering/science/business focus (Texas A&M and UT-Dallas if you really want to know). I wonder if this is regional, or related to field, or peculiar to each institution, or some other factor. I went to a good sized state university, and we called almost anyone teaching a class “professor.” In one class, the teacher pointed out that he was not a professor, he was an “instructor,” but he did have a Ph. D. He did not insist on being called Dr., though – he went by his first name. I have a sense that Dr. might be slightly more common in the sciences and mathematics fields, but I’m not really sure if that’s true as a general matter. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/47 "2019-12-04T20:11:52Z")
There can be all sorts of reasons. For instance, in my undergraduate astronomy department, all but one of the professors had PhDs. Almost everyone, student and professor alike, referred to each other by first name, because it was an informal environment. Except that there were three professors who were always referred to as “Dr. So-and-so”. Why? Because all three happened to have the same first name. In general, the rule seems to be: If you would call an equivalent person without a doctorate by their first name, you’d call the doctor by their first name, too. If you would call an equivalent person without a doctorate “Mr. So-and-so” or “Ms. Such-and-such”, and the doctor’s degree is in a relevant field, then you’d call the doctor “Dr. So-and-So”. If you would call an equivalent person without a doctorate “Mr.” or “Ms.”, and the doctor’s degree is not in a relevant field, then they just get called “Mr.” or “Ms.”, too. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/48 "2019-12-04T20:58:09Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Has a flight attendant ever come to your seat and said, “Oh, thank God you’re here Doctor FtG, the passenger in row 32 is having a heart attack!” Nope. But when a flight gets canceled or some such they are _really_ helpful. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/49 "2019-12-04T21:18:39Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > This sounds like it would mostly only be an issue in eg Germany, where someone may be introduced as “Prof. Dr. Dr. Dr. Der-und-Der” to be formal, or let’s say you are lecturing at a university, and wouldn’t necessarily expect some random student to address you like you’re their buddy. Otherwise, assuming you are on speaking terms, I do not see why you would need to address your colleague any way besides “Hi, Bob” or similar. I’ve heard it’s worse in Austria, where you have to address a lowly employee on the beat for the municipal public order office as “Herr Geheimer Hofrat” or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/50 "2019-12-04T21:52:34Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Out of curiosity, are those of you who are saying that professors are called “Professor So-and-So” coming from a private, liberal-arts context? > > My experiences where the professors were “Dr. So-and-So” are from large state universities with a primarily engineering/science/business focus (Texas A&M and UT-Dallas if you really want to know). Honestly I don’t recall what students called me when I was at U. IL and can’t say I much care. At McGill, it is Professor. What I do not understand is that every member of the office staff in my dept. calls me prof., while they address many of my colleagues by their first name. I have tried repeatedly to get them to use my first name and always sign my emails to them that way, but it doesn’t work. I must seem awfully threatening. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/51 "2019-12-06T10:05:24Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I’ve heard it’s worse in Austria, where you have to address a lowly employee on the beat for the municipal public order office as “Herr Geheimer Hofrat” or some such. It’s not worse, it’s different. The thing about Austria is that you never have to think about if ‘Dr’ is stuffy and pretentious, or if calling someone by their first name is inappropriate. There is a standard (which is extremely courteous), and you just use the same courtesy for everyone: for your boss or your servants or the shop clerk or the juvenile delinquent out front. Done. Sorted. Worry about something else. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/52 "2019-12-06T12:31:16Z")
I had a Physics prof in college and at the time he was working on but did not have his doctorate. I honestly don’t know what I called him then, probably Professor \. He was the advisor to the game group, and I think everyone addressed him as \ in that context. He still shows up at the university game convention\* and now that he has his doctorate most folks call him Dr. \ Brian - I’m still amazed that a student-run gaming convention has been going on for 30+ years ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/53 "2019-12-06T15:55:44Z")
My brother has an MBA, and is an Associate Professor. Under the university’s rules, he will not be eligible to be a full Professor until he finishes his doctorate. He teaches a class in Restaurant Management. His students address him by his important title: Chef. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/54 "2019-12-06T17:07:02Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I’ve noticed that in my workplace (government/engineering/research) there are lots of people with PhD, but there are a few that everyone refers to as Dr. \, and most others are just referred to by first name or full name. I can’t figure out why, people seem to do it because everyone else does it. Has anyone else seen that happen? Do you think that’s because they introduce themselves as Dr? Or some other social dynamic at play here? Every single college professor that I know has a PhD insists on being called “Dr.” Out in the workforce, none has (though they might append PhD to their name in their email signature). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/55 "2019-12-06T17:15:19Z")
Where I work it depends entirely on context and who is addressing whom. The scientists and the top administrators (who are also scientists) all have Ph.D.s. Everybody addresses each other by first name. Of course, in a formal context such as a meeting they will be introduced as “Dr. [Lastname].” Most scientists and technicians and other professional staff also are on a first name basis. Non-technical staff (such as receptionists and secretaries) and students will address scientists as “Dr. [Lastname].” I will often tell students to call me by my first name, but most will insist on calling me “Dr. [Firstname]” at least. Security guards and maintenance staff will just call everyone “Doctor” as a default. But no one insists on being called “Doctor” by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/56 "2019-12-06T22:04:13Z")
Physical therapists used to get a MS degree but now almost all programs give a DPT degree. Some go by Dr. like the guy I went to recently but I think most PTs don’t use Dr. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/57 "2020-01-12T11:11:38Z")
A bit late to this parade, but in Australian universities I have never heard anyone call anyone else Doctor or Professor outside very strict and formal (or sarcastic) settings. First year students are expected to call their lecturers and professors by their first name. If you meet someone at a party or casually, for them to even tell you that they have a doctorate or are a doctor or professor before it comes up in the context of ‘Oh and what do you do?’ is a clear indication that they are ‘up themselves’ which is a high social crime in egalitarian Australia, somewhere between horse-stealing and regicide. A female colleague was being stirred by some workmen on a site she had to attend. When one of them called her ‘Darl’ (‘darl’ - ‘darling’ is a bit like ‘sweetheart’, fairly benign in intent but still not appropriate) she effectively retorted ‘That’s Professor Darl to you, dickhead’). Did I mention its okay to call someone a dickhead to their face? ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/58 "2020-01-12T14:25:07Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Out of curiosity, are those of you who are saying that professors are called “Professor So-and-So” coming from a private, liberal-arts context? > > My experiences where the professors were “Dr. So-and-So” are from large state universities with a primarily engineering/science/business focus (Texas A&M and UT-Dallas if you really want to know). > [@eschrodinger](#): > > I wonder if this is regional, or related to field, or peculiar to each institution, or some other factor. I went to a good sized state university, and we called almost anyone teaching a class “professor.” In one class, the teacher pointed out that he was not a professor, he was an “instructor,” but he did have a Ph. D. He did not insist on being called Dr., though – he went by his first name. I have a sense that Dr. might be slightly more common in the sciences and mathematics fields, but I’m not really sure if that’s true as a general matter. An additional data point: when I was in the University of Texas physics program 30+ years ago, all the professors went by Doctor… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/59 "2020-01-12T15:59:30Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > A bit late to this parade, but in Australian universities I have never heard anyone call anyone else Doctor or Professor outside very strict and formal (or sarcastic) settings. First year students are expected to call their lecturers and professors by their first name. “Bruce,” I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312/60 "2020-01-12T21:15:51Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Bruce,” I assume. You assumed correctly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phds-who-are-referred-to-as-dr-and-those-who-arent/844312.md?page=4)