# Philadelphia Cheesesteaks **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184 "2004-01-12T15:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@Boo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/1 "2004-01-12T15:29:48Z")
this has probably been asked before but he search feature time out. are they made with cheezewiz or provolone? ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/2 "2004-01-12T15:44:34Z")
Yes. Both Whiz and provolone are canonical. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Frank\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/3 "2004-01-12T15:47:23Z")
Either. Many places in Philly will use cheeze-whiz while many delis in the surrounding 'burbs use provolone (or American). ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/4 "2004-01-13T02:25:11Z")
I was in Philladelphia a few months back, and a guy there enlightened our group as to why some vendors fail at making true Philly cheesteaks: They use good meat, hard rolls, and real cheese! ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/5 "2004-01-13T06:22:15Z")
There isn’t much debate about what constitutes a good Cheesesteak in Philadelphia, no really not at all. 😛 Okay, I’m obiviously lying here, as there are apparently thousands of sites dedicated to debating the Philadelphia cheese stake here’s one: [Look, a site with opinions on the best Philly cheesestakes - who’d a thought it](http://www.bestcheesesteaks.com/cheesesteaks/pa.htm) Cheez-wiz, Provolone, American, Mozzarella - anything, as long as it’s cheese like, is fair game… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/6 "2004-01-13T14:46:48Z")
The five best cheesesteaks in town: 1. John’s Roast Pork – don’t even ask for whiz 2. Tony Luke’s – ditto 3. Pat’s – whiz available, but no one gets it 4. Jim’s – the spot for whiz lovers 5. Geno’s – provolone only I believe ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/7 "2004-01-13T15:00:53Z")
Just for the record, I’ve had whiz at Geno’s, so it’s at least available there. Haven’t had a real cheesesteak in months, I think I’ll need to take the 2 1/2 hr drive down for one soon… ---
**Author:** ![Meros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Meros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meros)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/8 "2004-01-13T15:03:22Z")
> [@cainxinth](#): > > The five best cheesesteaks in town: > > 1. John’s Roast Pork – don’t even ask for whiz > 2. Tony Luke’s – ditto > 3. Pat’s – whiz available, but no one gets it > 4. Jim’s – the spot for whiz lovers > 5. Geno’s – provolone only I believe I’m pretty sure you can get either Provolone, Whiz, or American at Geno’s. There might be more but I tend not to touch anything other than Provolone. My personal preference though, is a combination of American/Provolone but it’s only for those who like to follow up their meal with a coronary bypass. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/9 "2004-01-13T15:21:32Z")
It depends. Whiz is standard at Genos, and Probo and American upon request. (give me a probalone without = cheesesteak with provolone minus onions) Places around the neighborhoods usually do American as standard, and you can ask for Probo, but Whiz would be an unusual order (but they could do it because the have Whiz for cheese fries). At a Tony Luke’s type joint, it’s probo because of the Italian-esque type sammich shop that it is. So, it depends. But at Genos, a basic cheesesteak = whiz. And this is not the defacto standardo for all Philly - it’s actually rare. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/10 "2004-01-14T16:16:14Z")
I am of the opinion that only cheesewiz can give you a true Philadelphia cheesesteak. The locals here use Amaroso rolls (only available in the Phila area), wiz, and top quality steak. There is nothing like a steak from Jim’s at South and 4th or at their new location at the Roosevelt mall. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/11 "2004-01-14T16:33:04Z")
This must be one of the strangest gastronomic treats in the world. I have read other Philadelphia Cheesesteak threads and the passion the sandwiches arouse is amazing. Even more so when you find out what it actually consists of. It all sounds so simple but I guess without going to an iconic joint in Philly I’ll never understand the attraction. Actually I think one west coast Doper claims to make unequalled cheesesteaks at home, and other Dopers support him. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/12 "2004-01-14T17:38:37Z")
For the record: I have issues with what **Bongmaster** wrote. First, it’s ‘4th and South’, not “South and 4th”. Second, a true Philly guy would be apprehensive about talking up a touristy place like Jim’s as the best…or touting Wiz as the best, since most natives get their steaks from local shops that don’t use wiz, and since most neighborhoods are proud of their local best who don’t use wiz. To the confused: I host vendors and customers monthly, from all over the world… All parts of the U.S., Asia, Europe, etc and 9 of10 insist on Philly cheesesteaks from a local joint at least for one lunch during their visit. It’s simple fare that can’t be duplicated unless you use the right grill, bread, meat and - although their is some cheese leeway-, the best steaks come off local grills with local ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/13 "2004-01-14T18:49:35Z")
Actually, it’s not so much that nobody outside Philadelphia _can_ duplicate a cheesesteak, as that, for some unfathomable reason, nobody actually _does_. It really is a very easy sandwhich to make, but so many places elsewhere in the country insist on ruining it by slathering it with iceberg lettuce, or not shredding the meat, or cutting the bun clear through, or some other such atrocity. Ironically, there is actually one place in Bozeman that makes a good cheesteak, but they’re the one place in the city which doesn’t call it a “Philadelphia” cheesesteak. As for the cheese, there’s no variety of cheese I’d really be surprised to see on a steak, but white American seems to be the most common, followed by provolone (the American is much greasier, which is simultaneously the biggest advantage and biggest disadvantage of American over Prov). Many places offer Whiz, and I’ve heard that it was the original, but it doesn’t seem so common a choice any more. And I cannot for the life of me understand the appeal of Jim’s. I only had one steak from there, but it tasted like cardboard. I’ve made better cheesesteaks myself. If you ask me, it’s Pat’s all the way, but in fairness, I must admit that I never tried Geno’s. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/14 "2004-01-14T21:45:52Z")
Cooking/Recipe threads belong in [**Cafe Society**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=13) these days. I’ll move this for you. * * * **Cajun Man** ~ SDMB Moderator ---
**Author:** ![slu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/74df32/32.png) [@slu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slu)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/15 "2004-01-14T23:03:51Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > For the record: I have issues with what **Bongmaster** wrote. > > First, it’s ‘4th and South’, not “South and 4th”. > > Second, a true Philly guy would be apprehensive about talking up a touristy place like Jim’s as the best…or touting Wiz as the best, since most natives get their steaks from local shops that don’t use wiz, and since most neighborhoods are proud of their local best who don’t use wiz. > To the confused: I host vendors and customers monthly, from all over the world… All parts of the U.S., Asia, Europe, etc and 9 of10 insist on Philly cheesesteaks from a local joint at least for one lunch during their visit. > It’s simple fare that can’t be duplicated unless you use the right grill, bread, meat and - although their is some cheese leeway-, the best steaks come off local grills with local ingredients. I agree with the 4th and South comment, but I live in Center City, and while I mostly get steaks from my local establishment, I must agree with Bongmaster about Jim’s. Of the “tourist places”, I’d rank them in this order: Jim’s, Geno’s, then Pat’s. And for the record, American, Provolone, and Whiz are available at all three places. Tourist trap or not, Jim’s makes some damn good steaks. I suppose you are going to trash Lorenzo’s now 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/16 "2004-01-14T23:16:21Z")
Hey, now that this thread is in cafe society… Can we talk about the types of, and best place for, Philly Hoagies? I had two when I was in Philly this past summer, one Roast Beef, one ‘Italian’ -both OK, but nothing special… I am under the impression they are supposed to be something more than just a plain ol’ (New York) Hero 😕 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/17 "2004-01-15T00:16:14Z")
…that is the McDonald’s “cheese steak”…don’t even try it! I bought one yesterday…it is terrible…like eating wet, moldy cardboard. They shoud be PROSECUTED for selling this crap! ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/18 "2004-01-15T00:35:55Z")
> [@SirRay](#): > > Hey, now that this thread is in cafe society… > > Can we talk about the types of, and best place for, Philly Hoagies? > I had two when I was in Philly this past summer, one Roast Beef, one ‘Italian’ -both OK, but nothing special… > I am under the impression they are supposed to be something more than just a plain ol’ (New York) Hero 😕 Nah, a hoagie is just a sub/grinder/hero – though a good one is a delight. My favorite is the Italian hoagie at Bassett’s in Reading Terminal Market. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/19 "2004-01-15T04:27:35Z")
The only difference between a hoagie and a sub is the way the bun is sliced. With a sub, you slice it clear through into two pieces; with a hoagie (or a cheesesteak, for that matter), it’s cut open along the edge like a hot dog bun. Personally, I find the hoagie cut to be easier to hold and eat, but YMMV. And you can get some good hoagies in Philadelphia, but then, you can get a good hoagie in a lot of places. It’s not nearly as distinctive to Philadelphia as the cheesesteak is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184/20 "2004-01-15T16:26:33Z")
This brings a question to mind that I’ve been wondering about for some time: Has anyone ever had a cheesesteak from Texadelphia? Specifically, has anyone ever had their cheesesteak who has _also_ had an “authentic” cheesesteak? For those who don’t know, Texadelphia is a (in my uninformed opinion) fabulously excellent Austin-local cheesesteak shop. The bun’s not cut all the way through, it has some form of real cheese on it and thin-sliced beef, and you can get it with all manner of weird things bedecking it (mushroom and onions, drooooool). Just writing about it makes me hungry. 😛 And I swear I saw Quentin Tarentino in there during 2001’s SXSW. He looked twitchy. Go fig. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-cheesesteaks/224184.md?page=2)