# Philadelphia named for an incestuous relationship? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 2, 2000, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824 "2000-08-02T08:16:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824/21 "2000-08-04T21:41:46Z")
I’m back from the library, but I have no definitive answers. [ul][li] **Philia** can refer “fondness between lovers”, but that is a relatively late usage. Late compared to what, I don’t know. The Ptolemaic dynasty was late compared to, say, the time of Pericles. The original use of the word is to denote affectionate regard amongst family members, friends, etc.[/li][li]The word **philadelphos** meant brother-loving (in the non-incestuous sense) long before Ptolemy and Arsinoe. It was used in this sense by Xenophon among others.[/li][li] **Philadelphia** (the word, not the place) occurs in the Greek New Testament, in _Romans_ 12:10 (among other places): “_Be_ kindly affectioned one to another with **brotherly love** ; in honour preferring one another;”[/li][li]Arsinoe II apparently was referred to as “philadelphos” in her lifetime. There are inscriptions bearing the name “Arsinoe philadelphos” that seem to imply she was still alive when they were made.[/li][li]Those biographers of William Penn who mention the subject at all agree that he probably named his city directly from the Greek roots, and not after the old-world cities of the same name. He was apparently a classicist as well as a biblical scholar, and so he was probably familiar with both the Greek word and the old-world cities. One biographer mentioned speculation that he may have been inspired by the “Philadelphians”, a kind of religious movement (?) that many Quakers belonged to.[/li][li]Both the Greeks and Macedonians were scandalized that full siblings would marry, even though half-sibling marriage was not uncommon in Macedonia.[/ul][/li] My primary remaining question is whether or not Arsinoe was called “philadelphos” before she married her brother. As don Jaime said, > [@](#): > > Other, definitely incestuous Ptolemies used “phil-” names that had > nothing to do with their marriages, like “Philopator” and “Philometer”, neither of whom had carnal relations with theri > parents This makes me think the name “philadelphos” may have been bestowed on her because she showed devotion to one or more of her brothers long before she married Ptolemy. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2000, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824/22 "2000-08-04T23:06:51Z")
> [@](#): > > _don Jamie wrote:_ > Berenike I, Pt. II and Ars. II’s mom, was not Ptolemy I’s sister, half or otherwise. Are you sure about that? [This site](http://www.bartleby.com/65/be/Berenic340.html), for instance, says she was: > [@](#): > > Berenice, b. c.340 B.C., d. 281 or 271 B.C., consort and half sister of Ptolemy I, king of ancient Egypt… Berenice, whose portrait appears with that of Ptolemy on many medals, was the mother by him of Ptolemy II and Arsinoë II. The source the site uses is apparently **The Columbia Encyclopedia: Sixth Edition**. Now, I won’t claim that because the information that Berenice was Ptolemy I’s half sister appears in an encyclopedia it has to be true, especially since I don’t know what primary sources the encyclopedia has used, but I am curious as to what sources you have that claim she isn’t. I spent a bit of time trying to find a site online that would specify who Ptolemy I’s and Berenice’s parents were (to see if they did indeed share a common parent), but without much luck. A site run by an organization called the “Princeton Economic Institute” [gives some history on Ptolemy I](http://peicommerce.com/HISTORY/EUROPE/GREECE/EGYPT/PTOL-1.HTM) (apparently as background on the coins of the time) and says: > [@](#): > > The throne of Egypt fell to Ptolemy I, the son of Lagus, a Macedonian of common birth. But does not specify who Ptolemy I’s mother was, and doesn’t mention Berenice’s parents at all. Interestingly, in an [arcticle about Arsinoe II](http://peicommerce.com/HISTORY/EUROPE/GREECE/EGYPT/ARSINOE2.HTM) it also makes some claims about why she might have married Ptolemy II. > [@](#): > > Ptolemy Ceraunus then came to Arsinoë and her sons who held up with some troops, in the great citadel of Cassandreia. Ptolemy Ceraunus then offered marriage to his half-sister and against the better judgement of her eldest son, she accepted. > > **The disastrous consequences that followed provide some insight into why inter-marraige between brother and sister developed in Egypt.** Clearly, Arsinoë, felt her situation quite desperate or she would not have considered such a groom. Ptolemy Ceraunus swore a solemn oath that he would adopt her sons, recognize their places in the succession, and not marry another woman or have children by another women. Such a public promise illustrates Arsinoë, desire perhaps to seek a throne without court rivals and that Ptolemy Ceraunus’ guarantee against polygamy suggests that he was well aware of the appeal of such a guarantee to a royal woman during this particular time. Arsinoë, also perhaps felt that her eldest son could [not?] succeed without the support of Ptolemy Ceraunus, despite his personal objection. > > Following the marriage, Ptolemy Ceraunus indeed proved that his character was blacker than the deepest night. Ptolemy Ceraunus murdered Arsinoë two younger sons and drove Arsinoë herself from Macedonia. Arsinoë eldest son appears to have disagreed with his mother’s judgement and fled at about the time of the wedding. > > Arsinoë returned to Egypt, to the court of her brother Ptolemy II. Once again, Arsinoë was involved in a dynastic struggle against her brother’s first wife, Arsinoë I - a daughter of Lysimachus by Nicaea and thus the sister of Agathocles. About 278 BC, a few years after the defeat of his wife’s father Lysimachos, Ptolemy II accused Arsinoe I of complicity in a plot against his life and banished her to Coptos, in Upper Egypt. Shortly thereafter,Ptolemy II married his sister, Arsinoë. > > Arsinoë thus received both status and power in Egypt. There is no record of her keeping contact with her eldest son. Therefore, having no children by her brother, she was forced recognize the children of his first wife as heirs to the throne of Egypt. > > **Arsinoë’s experience with the drawbacks of polygamy by a royal king both with her father and with her husband, contributed to the decline of royal polygamy in the immediate years thereafter. Multiple and competing heirs by different mothers served only to divide the royal household. It was indeed this competition that destroyed the dynastic hopes of Lysimachus. Thus, Ptolemy II shared this troubled past in his struggle against his half-brother. By choosing Arsinoë as his wife, Ptolemy II rejected polygamy in favor of its extreme opposite, royal sibling marriage that consolidated the dynasty rather than dividing it as did polygamy.** > > _(bolding added by me)_ I’m not sure how accurate the above is in terms of Arsinoe II and Ptolemy II’s actual motivitations (and it doesn’t strike me as the most scholarly of sources, especially considering the grammatical errors), but I thought it was interesting nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![don\_Jaime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@don\_Jaime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_Jaime)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824/23 "2000-08-07T17:36:41Z")
Amok, My opinion is Ptolemy married Arsinoe to ensure no one else could. As his sister, and daughter of the previous king, she already had prestige in Egypt. She had to be married off to somebody trustworthy to ensure this power wasn’t used against him. Given the complicated marriage politics and the perfidity of their own half-brother Ptolemy Keraunos, Ptolemy II probably decided he was his own safest option. It could also have served to renew her Egyptian prestige, like this other one says, since she had been more important in Makedonia than Egypt for so long. And Ptolemy and Arsinoe could just be sexual deviants. We’ll probably never have the full answer. The flaw in all these arguments is the real chance that a disgusted populace would have revolted against Ptolemy and Arsinoe, negating whatever beneficial effect they were after. I can’t remember what I cited for Ptolemy I and Berenike. I’m wanting to say Bevans, but I don’t think that’s right. I’ll have to look it up again. I do recall that their parents had different names. ---
**Author:** ![don\_Jaime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b4bc9f/32.png) [@don\_Jaime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_Jaime)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824/24 "2000-08-07T18:41:47Z")
Walter Ellis in “Ptolemy of Egypt” (1994) says contemporary acounts list Ptolemy’s parents as Lagos and Arsinoe and Berenike’s as Magas and Antigone. She came to Egypt as a lady’s maid to Ptolemy’s previous wife. A later commentary by Theokritos claimed she was a half-sister to give her family prestige and to help legitimize the full sibling mariages of the later Ptolemies. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824/25 "2000-08-07T19:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > John Corrado’s post has the signature line quoting me three posts above the post in which I complimented him from which he copied it. Do we have a causality violation going on, or something? Actually, he got the sig from the Oracle at IllaDelphi. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2000, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824/26 "2000-08-07T20:10:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Walter Ellis in “Ptolemy of Egypt” (1994) says contemporary acounts list Ptolemy’s parents as Lagos and Arsinoe and Berenike’s as Magas and Antigone. She came to Egypt as a lady’s maid to Ptolemy’s previous wife. A later commentary by Theokritos claimed she was a half-sister to give her family prestige and to help legitimize the full sibling mariages of the later Ptolemies. Makes sense. Thanks for the reference. I guess that would have made Ptolemy II and Arsinoe II’s marriage seem even more odd. As **bibliophage** already stated, it appears the greeks at the time were quite shocked by the marriage. Whether the common people of Egypt would have been, I’m not sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philadelphia-named-for-an-incestuous-relationship/27824.md?page=1)