# Philando Castile shooting dash cam video **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504 "2017-06-21T03:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/61 "2017-06-22T03:09:17Z")
I just watched the video and it seemed evident to me that the cop was just following his training. Which, of course, is the problem. When you train the cops to interpret any action as threatening, it isn’t surprising to find they are threatened by situations where it doesn’t seem they should be threatened. Of course, you really can’t fault the cop for following his training. That would really send a bad message to those we are trying to protect us. “If you do what we train you to do, you may go to jail” isn’t really a good recruiting slogan. What needs to be done, in my opinion, is to attack the training. It is obviously flawed and the municipalities who continue to provide such flawed training should be held accountable. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/62 "2017-06-22T04:24:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Or have they as a profession made themselves safer through a conscious or unconscious policy of offloading the risk onto the population they’re supposed to be protecting? There are obviously still a lot of serious problems, but the police used to [kill a lot more people](http://www.cjcj.org/news/8113)\*, so I’m not sure they’ve offloaded the risk. Policing seems to kill fewer people on both sides of the equation than it did 50 years ago. \*I can’t find anything that says if they’re _shooting_ fewer people per capita, so it’s possible that this is more about medical advances than behavior. But that would apply on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/63 "2017-06-22T06:28:55Z")
This cop was way too paranoid and high-strung to ever be allowed to wear a badge. He had no business being a cop, period. He should have been convicted of at least manslaughter, and the police academy that screened him should be investigated for failing to strike him from the force. That being said… if you tell any cop you have a gun, and then reach your hand where he can’t see what you’re reaching for, and don’t obey his commands, and act like your stoned or drunk or something… well, for heaven’s sake, you were begging to get whacked. Especially if you’re black. That’s about as dumb as jumping between a mother bear and her cub. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Basically, we need to treat cops like wild animals. Don’t make any sudden moves, don’t do anything that could possibly be viewed as threatening, and if you end up shot anyway, well, you can’t really blame the wild animal for getting spooked. Animals, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/64 "2017-06-22T12:42:18Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > That being said… if you tell any cop you have a gun, and then reach your hand where he can’t see what you’re reaching for, and don’t obey his commands, and act like your stoned or drunk or something… well, for heaven’s sake, you were begging to get whacked. Especially if you’re black. That’s about as dumb as jumping between a mother bear and her cub. Exactly. That’s what Castile just didn’t understand. He shouldn’t have ever [ul] [li]reached[/li][li]have his hands/body exist outside of the cop’s vision [/li][li]failed to obey[/li][li]acted stoned/drunk[/li][/ul]Frankly Castile was begging to be shot to death by police. Surprised the idiot survived this long. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/65 "2017-06-22T12:57:38Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Exactly. That’s what Castile just didn’t understand. He shouldn’t have ever > [ul] > [li]reached[/li][/ul] Except he was asked to get his license. Have to reach for that. > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]have his hands/body exist outside of the cop’s vision [/li][/ul] Hard to reach for your wallet when asked without your hands existing outside of the cop’s vision. > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]failed to obey[/li][/ul] He did no such thing. “Don’t pull [the gun] out” was the command, and he wasn’t pulling the gun out. He was still complying with the command to produce his license. > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]acted stoned/drunk[/li][/ul] There’s no evidence that he was acting stoned/drunk other than the cop’s bullshit, self-serving testimony. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/66 "2017-06-22T13:20:14Z")
Castile should’ve still predicted this[.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/67 "2017-06-22T13:27:17Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > There’s no evidence that he was acting stoned/drunk other than the cop’s bullshit, self-serving testimony. There’s also apparently a medical examiner’s report or something that says he had THC in his system at the time of his death. Perhaps not direct evidence that he was “acting high”, but an … ummm … supporting fact of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/68 "2017-06-22T13:36:08Z")
Damn. Breezy in here indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/69 "2017-06-22T14:42:13Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Castile should’ve still predicted this[.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) He should have predicted being killed by an officer of the law for trying to comply with said officer’s commands? NO ONE should predict that. Because it should NEVER happen. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/70 "2017-06-22T14:49:41Z")
From [Colin Noir](https://www.facebook.com/COLIONNOIR/posts/1386059818110438): > [@](#): > > In The case of officer Jeronimo Yanez, I don’t feel he woke up that day wanting to shoot a black person. However, I keep asking myself, would he have done the same thing if Philando were white? As I put on my Monday morning quarterback Jersey, it is my opinion that Philando Castile should be alive today. I believe there was a better way to handle the initial stop. If he suspected Philando was a suspect in a robbery, there were ways to conduct that stop in a way that would have completely avoided the shooting altogether, but Yanez neglected to do so. Colin Noir is a gun rights activist who hosts a web series for the NRA and is quite popular in the gun rights crowd. The rest of the letter is worth the read, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/71 "2017-06-22T15:24:30Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > From [Colin Noir](https://www.facebook.com/COLIONNOIR/posts/1386059818110438): > Colin Noir is a gun rights activist who hosts a web series for the NRA and is quite popular in the gun rights crowd. The rest of the letter is worth the read, IMO. Colion Noir manages to straddle the line between “Cool” and “Informative” better than most. He’s personable, slick, passionate, and knowledgable. His vidblogs are highly-producted without coming across as facil. I really like the guy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/72 "2017-06-22T15:28:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There’s also apparently a medical examiner’s report or something that says he had THC in his system at the time of his death. Perhaps not direct evidence that he was “acting high”, but an … ummm … supporting fact of sorts. He did not have THC in his system at the time of his death, he had the metabolites from the breakdown of THC in his system. This tells me that he smoked marijuana sometime between seconds before he was shot to death, to a couple of weeks prior. It does not indicate (nor preclude) that he was high at the time that he was killed. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/73 "2017-06-22T15:53:08Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > He did not have THC in his system at the time of his death, he had the metabolites from the breakdown of THC in his system. > > This tells me that he smoked marijuana sometime between seconds before he was shot to death, to a couple of weeks prior. > > It does not indicate (nor preclude) that he was high at the time that he was killed. I appreciate the clarification. Marijuana use is not one of the areas I have experience in. I was just reporting what [I had read](http://www.startribune.com/castile-s-death-prompting-justice-dept-review-of-st-anthony-police-department/406585886/): > [@](#): > > Gray said that autopsy results indicated Castile has high levels of THC in his blood, the chemical responisble for marijuana’s psychological effects, and was “stoned” while driving that day. The memo said Reynolds confirmed that the two were “smokers,” had marijuana in the car and had smoked marijuana before the stop that day. Obviously Gray has an agenda there. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/74 "2017-06-22T17:31:53Z")
I admit I don’t know the drug laws pertinent to the Castile case, but in general, two of the primary drives in legislation nationwide right now are 1) gun rights and 2) marijuana legalization. I’m not particularly a fan of either, but I find it slightly bizarre that _in this national environment_ Yanez is basing his defense on the idea that people who smoke weed are dangerous and someone legally carrying a gun is a deadly threat. As a polity, we seem to be moving rapidly to the opposite opinion. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/75 "2017-06-22T18:01:23Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > . . They do this because sometimes the driver or passengers will shoot at the cop as soon as he gets to the window. Smart cops won’t relax until they get a clear visual on everyone in the car and can see that nobody poses an immediate threat. > > We need to treat them like what they actually are: people who have been trained to expect occasional [attempts on their life during traffic stops.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy1qbLjkJnY) And why are they trained this way? Cops pull over literally tens of thousands of people every year, and you can count on your fingers the number who get shot at as they are approaching the car. So each and every cop is trained to be afraid of a situation that WILL NOT happen to them, just because it has happened. That’s like training pedestrians to be ready to shoot at every car they see when they are in the crosswalk because some people have been killed by cars that do not stop. Yeah, its happened, but it’s not gonna happen to you. A word of warning would be sufficient, not training in how to approach. mc ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/76 "2017-06-22T18:37:04Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > And why are they trained this way? Cops pull over literally tens of thousands of people every year, and you can count on your fingers the number who get shot at as they are approaching the car. So each and every cop is trained to be afraid of a situation that WILL NOT happen to them, just because it has happened. According to [Sauron’s numbers,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20294646&postcount=49) in any given year an officer has a 1 in 90 chance of being assaulted with a dangerous weapon. That works out to a 29% chance of being stabbed/shot/bludgeoned at some point in a 30-year career. And that’s under current policies, which train the officer to be vigilant against such threats and provide a lot of leeway for self-defense. If we shift to a “relax, let your guard down, it WILL NOT happen to you,” it’s likely that assaults-with-weapons against cops will increase significantly. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/77 "2017-06-22T18:51:41Z")
I didn’t say they should be taught to relax put their guard down. They have a sometimes dangerous job, but they also have a sometimes mundane job. If you treat the mundane parts as dangerous, you make it more likely that someone gets hurt or killed for no reason. I’m not alone in this reasoning Volusia County (FL) Sheriff Mike Chitwood says > [@](#): > > He said most officers never fire their guns, yet they spend hundreds of hours at the gun range. They spend far less time training in active listening and communication… . .We’re proficient in (shooting), but we’re not proficient in the No. 1 thing: dealing with people. . . > > I think most shootings that we see are because we the police put ourselves in a position that we don’t need to be in. . .Today, for some reason, we’ve switched out of the guardian mentality and we’ve become warriors. And that’s not what American policing was founded on. mc ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/78 "2017-06-22T19:02:31Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > According to [Sauron’s numbers,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20294646&postcount=49) in any given year an officer has a 1 in 90 chance of being assaulted with a dangerous weapon. That works out to a 29% chance of being stabbed/shot/bludgeoned at some point in a 30-year career. And that’s under current policies, which train the officer to be vigilant against such threats and provide a lot of leeway for self-defense. If we shift to a “relax, let your guard down, it WILL NOT happen to you,” it’s likely that assaults-with-weapons against cops will increase significantly. In the Castile shooting, Castile, an untrained civilian, apparently had to act ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY WITH NO MISTAKES (e.g. thinking “don’t reach for it” meant the gun specifically, not what he was actually reaching for at the time, which was something else and entirely peaceful) or else he would be killed. He can’t twitch, he can’t misunderstand an (unclear and vague) instruction – not a single mistake, or he’s dead. The trained professional, on the other hand, made multiple mistakes, such as giving unclear instructions (he should have said “put your hands in the air” or similar instead of something vague like “don’t reach for it”), and ended up killing an innocent person due to his own jumpiness/nervousness and mistakes, with no legal consequences. Does it seem right to you that both the onus of behavior, and the consequences, are much, MUCH higher for untrained civilians than for trained professionals in law enforcement? It doesn’t seem right to me. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/79 "2017-06-22T19:16:01Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > OK, I must have missed that. I knew he handed Yanez something. > > If a cop (who knows you have a firearm) is pointing a gun at you and screaming “don’t reach for it!” repeatedly, why on earth would you continue reaching for your driver’s license? > mmm Have you ever been in a situation where a cop is pointing a gun at you and screaming? I have, and let me tell you this, you are not thinking clearly. One half of you brain is saying “stop moving” and the other half of you brain is saying “run! get the hell out of there!” You are NOT rationally in control of yourself, and you are NOT hearing the commands clearly. If someone acting weirdly and not responding to your commands is gonna make you jumpy, then I suggest not pointing a gun at them and yelling! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/80 "2017-06-22T19:37:12Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > That works out to a 29% chance of being stabbed/shot/bludgeoned at some point in a 30-year career. I don’t mean to doubt Sauron’s numbers, but “assaulted with a firearm” does not necessarily mean “shot”. It might just mean “shot at”, or depending on how liberally they’re counting them, might include Philando Castile’s actions in the traffic stop. [Here are some BLS statistics on police officer injuries and deaths](https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-officers-2014.htm) For injuries, there’s a bit of a range, from a high of 35,590 in 2009 to a low of 27,660 in 2014 (most recent year they offer statistics for). That’s obviously quite a bit lower than the number of “assaults” the FBI records. There’s more though, the BLS shows that only 27% of the nonfatal injuries from 2014 were from “violence and other injuries by persons or animals” Falls, slips, and trips, were just behind it at 25% and overexertion and bodily reaction (insert fat cop joke here) at 21%. What are we to conclude? That out of 48,315 assaults on officers in 2014, there were only 7,468 officers injured and 54 killed by “violence and other injuries by persons or animals.” I don’t know exactly how that affects your estimate of the “chance of being stabbed/shot/bludgeoned”, but I’m guessing it’s quite a bit lower. That doesn’t excuse all the times an officer is shot _at_ or stabbed _at_, thankfully unsuccessfully, but their chance of being actually injured or killed by it is quite a bit lower. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504.md?page=5)