# Philando Castile shooting dash cam video **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504 "2017-06-21T03:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/121 "2017-06-24T01:18:27Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > …Your argument falls in this. > > As the guy with the gun, it was up to Yanez to control the situation. He needed to be clearer on what he wanted Castile to do. This is a very good point, one that I had not considered. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/122 "2017-06-24T01:22:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You pretend that we are agreeing with each other, then you say that pretending is irresponsible. > In the future, just say “YES-NO” and save some time, o.k.? No, I think we do agree that we cannot know exactly what went down. Unless you claim to really _know_. You’re not claiming that. Are you? mmm ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/123 "2017-06-24T02:18:11Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Here’s a fun thought – presumably, Castile’s girlfriend testified at the trial. Perhaps someone can look up the trial record to see whether she saw Castile reach for an actual gun or not? Presumably, Yanez’s partner had a clear view of the same. > > It would be interesting to know if Castile’s hand was anywhere near his gun when he was murdered. Given what is known about all that was going on, _why_ would he have gone for his gun, and _why_ would he have mentioned he was packing before reaching for it? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/124 "2017-06-24T03:02:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Given what is known about all that was going on, _why_ would he have gone for his gun, and _why_ would he have mentioned he was packing before reaching for it? Precisely. Castile’s actions make no sense for a man who actually intended to shoot a police officer, and Yanez should have known that. At the very least he should have waited until he actually SAW A GUN before unleashing the fuckin’ fury. And the jury should have convicted Yanez of _something_, if not murder or manslaughter at least something like reckless endangerment, but we all know that’s practically impossible with today’s judicial system. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/125 "2017-06-24T03:08:24Z")
George Zimmerman uses CCW to mistakenly kill a black kid minding his own business. Philando Castle was minding his own business and telling an officer that he had a gun and gets shot by a cop. Common denominator? Both black men are dead. And both black men are legally killed. Concealed carry licenses are basically documents that give white men legal permission to kill non-whites legally. Anyone who says otherwise just needs to crack open a fucking history book and read about things like Code Noir and peonage. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/126 "2017-06-24T11:41:39Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Really? Suppose Castile was reaching for (or appeared to be reaching for) his gun. Yanez still would have had no justification? Unless Yanez actually saw a gun, all he can really say is that Castile “appeared to be reaching”. Is a suspect “appearing to reach for _something_” enough to justify a police officer shooting them? I would answer “no”, even _before_ considering the additional factor that Yanez had _asked_ Castile to hand over his license. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/127 "2017-06-24T12:37:15Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Unless Yanez actually saw a gun, all he can really say is that Castile “appeared to be reaching”. Is a suspect “appearing to reach for _something_” enough to justify a police officer shooting them? I would answer “no”, even _before_ considering the additional factor that Yanez had _asked_ Castile to hand over his license. But again (sigh) - we do not know what Yanez saw. mmm ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/128 "2017-06-24T12:43:49Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > But again (sigh) - we do not know what Yanez saw. Is _anyone_ contending Yanez saw a gun? I don’t think this point is in dispute: Yanez saw Castile reaching for something, but didn’t see what it was. And if that’s the case, I’m saying it’s not enough to justify shooting him. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/129 "2017-06-25T01:54:37Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > George Zimmerman uses CCW to mistakenly kill a black kid minding his own business. That’s not even remotely close to what happened. Trayvon earned the bullet he caught. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/130 "2017-06-25T02:19:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s not even remotely close to what happened. Trayvon earned the bullet he caught. If you take the words of Zimmerman as 100% true, perhaps. Do you think everything Zimmerman said was definitely 100% true to the point that you’re willing to say to this kid’s grieving parents that he “earned the bullet”? The trial may not have proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think it’s entirely reasonable to consider the possibility that Martin might have been in fear for his life, and reacted with violence towards someone he believed meant violence against him. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/131 "2017-06-25T06:40:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you take the words of Zimmerman as 100% true, perhaps. Do you think everything Zimmerman said was definitely 100% true to the point that you’re willing to say to this kid’s grieving parents that he “earned the bullet”? > > The trial may not have proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, but I think it’s entirely reasonable to consider the possibility that Martin might have been in fear for his life, and reacted with violence towards someone he believed meant violence against him. Sure. It’s got nothing to do with “take the words of Zimmerman as 100% true”. The physical evidence supported his version of events. But, at the very least, you seem to acknowledge that Trayvon was violent towards Zimmerman. That’s a whole hell of a lot closer to our best understanding of the truth than he was “minding his own business”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/132 "2017-06-25T11:14:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sure. It’s got nothing to do with “take the words of Zimmerman as 100% true”. The physical evidence supported his version of events. But, at the very least, you seem to acknowledge that Trayvon was violent towards Zimmerman. That’s a whole hell of a lot closer to our best understanding of the truth than he was “minding his own business”. The physical evidence also supports my proposed interpretation. I just think it’s incredibly callous and unkind of you to say that Martin, who may have legitimately been in fear for his life, “earned the bullet”. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/133 "2017-06-25T13:52:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The physical evidence also supports my proposed interpretation. I just think it’s incredibly callous and unkind of you to say that Martin, who may have legitimately been in fear for his life, “earned the bullet”. You’re ignoring the third possibility, also supported by evidence, that the Zimmerman-Martin shooting was a case of “When Assholes Collide.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/134 "2017-06-25T14:06:00Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You’re ignoring the third possibility, also supported by evidence, that the Zimmerman-Martin shooting was a case of “When Assholes Collide.” I have no certainty as to what happened; I’m not ignoring anything. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/135 "2017-06-25T16:08:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The physical evidence also supports my proposed interpretation. Do we agree that Martin was most likely on top of Zimmerman, beating the shit our of him, when he got shot? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/136 "2017-06-25T16:16:49Z")
Iiandyiiii, You are correct, my phrasing above was unnecessarily callous, I’ll try to frame the events as I understand them more kindly in the future. I think the evidence presented at trial shows that Martin was getting the better end of a physical confrontation between the two of them when he was shot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/137 "2017-06-25T17:20:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Iiandyiiii, > > You are correct, my phrasing above was unnecessarily callous, I’ll try to frame the events as I understand them more kindly in the future. I think the evidence presented at trial shows that Martin was getting the better end of a physical confrontation between the two of them when he was shot. That’s very possible, but it doesn’t conflict with the idea that Martin might have been in fear for his life due to Zimmerman aggressively accosting him for no reason. Being a better fighter after being attacked (which may be what happened) doesn’t count as “earning a bullet”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/138 "2017-06-25T17:30:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s very possible, but it doesn’t conflict with the idea that Martin might have been in fear for his life due to Zimmerman aggressively accosting him for no reason. Being a better fighter after being attacked (which may be what happened) doesn’t count as “earning a bullet”. “Aggressively accosting him” and “being attacked” are two claims with, AFAIK, no evidence to support them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/139 "2017-06-25T17:47:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “Aggressively accosting him” and “being attacked” are two claims with, AFAIK, no evidence to support them. Neither do they conflict with any evidence, in my understanding. I understand that’s not enough to convict, but considering Zimmerman’s truly reprehensible actions and statements since then, I think it’s just as likely that this happened than that Zimmerman’s scenario occurred. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504/140 "2017-06-25T18:03:44Z")
There is no physical evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin, but there is substantial physical evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman. You are, of course, free to imagine any fantasy scenario you like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philando-castile-shooting-dash-cam-video/789504.md?page=8)