When you write a post like this, it is unnecessary to add “I’m a white guy.”
And suppose Yanez had mouthed the words “You’re dead, nigger!” so softly the mic couldn’t pick it up? What a fun game!
You’re next.
Meant to include this in my earlier response, and forgot. My bad.
Based solely on the information given, I’d have no problem absolving the cop in this instance for shooting the guy. If a policeman is talking to you, and you hit him with a shovel out of the blue, that’s assault with a deadly weapon. The cop is justified in defending himself.
Sure, there are various what-ifs and maybes that could change that. I’m basing this on how I’m picturing the encounter happened.
There are ways that that could have been avoided, but yeah, I don’t see that as as much of an over reaction.
There are people in this thread who say things like, “Don’t move, don’t twitch, don’t look nervous, don’t make eye contact, don’t avoid eye contact, follow the officer’s instructions, but refuse the officer’s instructions…” The advice in this thread is often conflicting, and requires a near superhuman level of control and training to execute while someone is screaming at you and pointing a gun at your head.
I feel that, “Don’t hit the cops with a snow shovel.” is probably easy enough advice to follow.
Of course, having said that, we have no idea. Was there video of this incident, or are we just relying on the officer’s word?
Step out of the radius of the snow shovel?? Or was the officer on the ground with the shovel posied above him ready to strike?
It was in fact Yanez’ contention, by his own testimony, that Castile appeared to be reaching for a gun. Yanez was so jacked up on adrenalin at that point that when Castile’s hand came back out, Yanez lacked the cognitive ability to distinguish between a gun and anything else Castile may have been holding in his hand. He clearly panicked.
I don’t think Yanez needed to wait for a gun to be pointed directly at him before shooting; that doesn’t reliably allow enough time to defend himself. But I do think he needed to make a determination of what was in Castile’s hand before shooting. According to Yanez, his line of sight was blocked by Castile’s left arm, but then that also would have made it difficult for Castile to aim at him. I am not a trained cop, but I would suggest that a more reasonable officer, faced with the exact same actions by Castile, might have chosen to retreat to behind the B-pillar (making it difficult for Castile to take aim) while taking aim with his own weapon and issuing commands, without shooting until/unless a weapon was clearly seen in Castile’s hand and he displayed clear hostile intent.
i’m not usually on the cop’s side, but this one kinda looks the the guy may have been reaching for the cop’s gun, hard to tell, but it is possible the cop thought that. whether or not he needed to shoot him 3 times is another story.
eta: the snow shovel guy
mc
This matches pretty closely with what physiology experts familliar with high-stress decision making say. Once adreanline gets to a certain point, cognition and fine motor skills are sharply reduced.
The time to prevent this shooting was WAY before the traffic stop ever happened. It needed to be prevented in better training of Officer Yanez. Once he panicked, it was FAR too late. Hell, once he got on the road that day, it was too late - Officer Yanez arrived at the traffic stop with all the skills and judgement he was trained to have.
What on earth in that video could possibly lead you to this conclusion?
just before the video cuts out it looks like the guy may be trying to tackle the cop, I could understand, somewhat, that the cop might think he might be trying for the gun.
Like i said it’s not clear, but of all the bad encounters I’ve seen, I could give the cop the some leeway on this one.
mc
Due entirely to poor judgement on Yanez’s part, the situation as it existed was such that there was no justification even then. Yanez directly told Castile to reach for something, and Castile did so. If it is impossible for Yanez to determine what Castile is reaching for, then he should not have issued the command for Castile to reach for something.
mikecurtis, how could the driver inside a car even possibly reach for the gun of a police officer outside of the car?
Sorry Chronos and Rickjay I was commenting on the snow shovel incident from utah, that TokyoBayer brought up.
mc
I normally read an entire thread before I comment, but do not have the time to do that right now. I apologize if this has already been said. Officer Yanez gave contradictory orders. First he ordered Castile to give him his license and registration. Castile gave him the registration out of his glovebox, and was reaching for his wallet to get his license, when he informed Officer Yanez he had a gun. Yanez yelled “Don’t draw the ghun, Don’t draw the gun” before shooting Castile. Castile wasn’t drawing the gun, he was getting his license, so in his mind, he was okay to continue, and did continue. After Yanez started yelling, he assumed that Castile was drawing the gun, lost his shit, and shot and killed Castile. I understand why Yanez was acquitted. In his mind, Castile was not complying with his order, and he felt threatened. By the letter of the law, he committed no crime, because the laws are written to favor the police. On the other hand, he had better not be hired in any capacity that requires the carriage of firearms in the future, because when he had to make a decision, he made the wrong one and it cost an innocent man his life. When Castile informed him that he had a gun, Yanez should have told him to stop moving altogether. Instead of telling him to not draw the gun he should have yelled “Don’t move!”. He then should have told Castile to put his hands on the steering wheel, then to use both hands to open the door of the car from the outside handle, and then get out of the car, all the time keeping his hands in view. Then Yanez could have disarmed him, and proceeded with the traffic stop. But it didn’t happen that way, and it is a tragedy.
I had an idea, and I am only half joking. I think that every applicant to the police department should be sent to a gathering, or maybe a picnic, crowded with black men who are open carrying. Have psychologists observe the applicant’s interactions with armed black men, and decide if they have the correct temperament to be a cop. Just throwing it out there.
That is the best idea I have heard in a very long time.
This is not even mentioning that there was a cop on the other side, who he didn’t even glance at to say, is he reaching for a gun or not?
Americans do know that they live in a dystopia, right?
I’m glad that you agree that we cannot know exactly what went down.
And to pretend that we do is irresponsible.
mmm
You pretend that we are agreeing with each other, then you say that pretending is irresponsible.
In the future, just say “YES-NO” and save some time, o.k.?
Here’s a fun thought – presumably, Castile’s girlfriend testified at the trial. Perhaps someone can look up the trial record to see whether she saw Castile reach for an actual gun or not? Presumably, Yanez’s partner had a clear view of the same.
It would be interesting to know if Castile’s hand was anywhere near his gun when he was murdered.