# Philip Seymour Hoffman has died. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 2, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364 "2014-02-02T18:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/141 "2014-02-04T03:31:32Z")
It’s a bit odd considering what a star he turned out to be, but my first time seeing Philip Seymour Hoffman was in this documentary mini-series about the American Revolution. He was a soldier in the Continental Army whose lines consisted of what I guess were diary excerpts from the time. Every time I’ve seen him since, I’ve first associated him as “that guy who played Joseph Plumb Martin on PBS.” ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/142 "2014-02-04T03:58:24Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not a disease. > > Calling it a disease makes people feel like it “isn’t their fault”. > > Being an addict is not something that happens unless you expose yourself to something and your body/brain says you can’t live without another “fix.” Whether it be gambling, drugs, sex, or whatever, the addiction is real, but calling it a disease removes responsibility away from the addict and puts it on some mysterious, uncontrollable genetic trigger that absolves the addict from the responsibility of their dangerous and selfish behavior. > > Sorry, i didn’t mean to hijack this thread and i know there is a better place for this, but I just get so frustrated when people call addiction a disease. > > Someone didn’t sneeze on PSH and make him a heroin addict. He did that all by himself. He could have been in a room full of heroin and heroin addicts shooting up, and he would have been just fine. When he decided to put that drug in his body (by himself, not being tied down and forced to ingest it against his will), and continued to do it, he created his own problem. Calling it a disease is not fair to the countless diseases out there that are real. > > This is a sad death, but he didn’t die from ALS or cancer. And yet, people do things that make it more likely they’ll develop cancer, like smoking, drinking, eating meat, becoming obese, or climbing into tanning beds. People diagnosed with Type II diabetes are often judged for their own personal failing regarding diet and exercise. And yet, some populations are far more likely to develop addictions than others, just as Native Americans are more likely to suffer from alcoholism. And yet, most diseases, especially those diseases which riddle our modern populations, aren’t caused by one person sneezing on another. You don’t catch heart disease that way. Or Alzheimer’s. And yet, there are inheritable traits which cause one person to be more susceptible to an addiction than another. And yet, there are plenty of other diseases, like depression, OCD, and social phobia, whose primary treatment was once being told by others, “well, if you’d just choose to be happy/relaxed/not shy”. And yet, people who commit suicide were once judged as cowards instead of understood as being in such a state of suffering, killing themselves was the better option. And yet, there are physical changes in the brains of addicts which make it impossible to maintain emotional and physical homeostasis without either another fix or some heavy duty medical intervention. The point here is that addiction is far more complicated than “well, if he’d just stood there and hadn’t injected smack in his veins, he wouldn’t be dead”, and that blaming and shaming addicts leads only to worse outcomes. The choice is not between “it’s his own damn fault” and “poor bastard, he had no control over his fate”. Successful treatment doesn’t start with “you asshole, stop doing H”. Demonizing addicts only leads to more deaths. Please stop doing it. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/143 "2014-02-04T04:04:14Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > I agree completely. Addiction is a symptom of a deeper underlying problem, not a disease unto itself. Drying out in rehab is only a band-aid. It doesn’t make the underlying problem go away. I agree with this, and would add that for some people there is a generic predisposition to react to alcohol in a way that makes it easier for them to become physically addicted. Sort of like an allergy makes one person sensitive to pollen or cat dander, but not another person. If you have talked to alcoholics, read their stories, or (like I have) lived with one, their bodies “love” and crave alcohol in a way that’s different for people without this predisposition. These are the people who cannot EVER have just one drink. Not everyone with a “drinking problem” is like this. Just like some people never become addicted to nicotine. They can smoke for a while and stop with no problem. I smoked for a year about 20 years ago, but never craved it. The disease model of addiction is controversial, because it can be used to absolve the addict of responsibility. But that model is useful, too, particularly if you look at it as a physical predisposition that will _nail_ the person if s/he slips up. I mean, if a person knows he’s allergic to peanuts, he’s not going to fool around with peanut butter just for kicks. If he knows that taking one drink will create a craving in his body that he will not be able to resist until he’s passed out on the front lawn in a pool of his own vomit, then he has to avoid that first drink just like the other guy has to avoid a Nutter Butter. But he has to acknowledge and admit that once he takes that first drink, his will power goes out the window. From what I understand, however, heroin is a different ball game and has the potential to create a physical dependency quickly in just about anyone. ETA. Previous poster covered some of this. Cross post. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/144 "2014-02-04T05:30:31Z")
Please take any further discussion of drugs, addiction, disease etc. here - thanks!: > **[PSH \[Philip Seymour Hoffman\] has died; discuss drugs and addiction here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=714875)** > > To avoid more sidetracking and tangents from this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=714759 ---
**Author:** ![Esco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de053/32.png) [@Esco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esco)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/145 "2014-02-04T13:15:54Z")
Its amazing that in the US where they sentence dealers harshly to 20 or 30-year jailtime they \*still \*have so many drugs floating around: > **[Hoffman’s Heroin Points to Surge in Grim Trade (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/04/nyregion/hoffmans-heroin-points-to-surge-in-grim-trade.html?hp&_r=1)** > > Packages of the drug found in the apartment where Philip Seymour Hoffman died offered a window into the actor’s struggle with addiction and exposed a seedy underground where heroin sells for as little as $6 a bag. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/146 "2014-02-04T14:16:14Z")
You saw the previous post, right? Here’s [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) on the actor’s final hours: [http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/04/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-final-hours/index.html?hpt=hp\_t1](http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/04/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-final-hours/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/147 "2014-02-04T14:18:01Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > It’s a bit odd considering what a star he turned out to be, but my first time seeing Philip Seymour Hoffman was in this documentary mini-series about the American Revolution. He was a soldier in the Continental Army whose lines consisted of what I guess were diary excerpts from the time. Every time I’ve seen him since, I’ve first associated him as “that guy who played Joseph Plumb Martin on PBS.” I love that documentary! [Liberty!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0129692/) actually had quite a few well-known actors (well, nowadays) in it. Victor Garber, Jane Addams, Roger Rees and Campbell Scott were in it as well… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/148 "2014-02-04T14:42:47Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > It’s a bit odd considering what a star he turned out to be, but my first time seeing Philip Seymour Hoffman was in this documentary mini-series about the American Revolution. He was a soldier in the Continental Army whose lines consisted of what I guess were diary excerpts from the time. Every time I’ve seen him since, I’ve first associated him as “that guy who played Joseph Plumb Martin on PBS.” I first noticed him as the guy who starts catching on to how thing’s ain’t quite right in **The Talented Mister Ripley** : there’s the movie-star good looks of Oscar-caliber actors like Jude Law and Matt Damon and Gwyneth Paltrow and Cate Blanchett, and _this_ dude with a nothing part confidences his way to being memorable. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/149 "2014-02-04T14:47:38Z")
Addiction is one thing. Binge drugging is another situation. But 70+ bags of smack, 20 used needles, cocaine, prescription pills … it sounds a lot like suicide by OD to me. Has no one else floated that theory? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/150 "2014-02-04T14:48:18Z")
The first Paul Thomas Anderson film we saw was an absolutely wonderful little gem entitled [Hard Eight](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119256/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_49). It came out in 1996, the year before _Boogie Nights_. I knew Hoffman was an Anderson favorite, but I didn’t realize he was in _Hard Eight_. Listed as “Young Craps Player.” It’s been years since I watched it. We had a videotape of it, that’s how long it’s been. We’ll have to try to find the DVD. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/151 "2014-02-04T15:08:36Z")
I think I first noticed him in Twister, and then when I saw Boogie Nights I was thinking “Hey, that’s the guy from Twister.” From the CNN timeline of the hours leading up to his death, this part is especially interesting: > [@](#): > > Between 8 and 9 p.m. – Hoffman withdraws a total of $1,200 from an automated teller machine in six transactions at a supermarket near his West Village home, two law enforcement sources say, citing bank records. A witness told investigators that he saw Hoffman withdrawing money around 8 p.m. at the supermarket while talking to two men who were wearing messenger bags, the officials said. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/152 "2014-02-04T15:46:41Z")
> [@Moonchild](#): > > Hoffman was developing a show for a pay cable channel about a debauched advertising executive with Hoffman playing lead (my friend was to be cast as another regular) and the show was interspersed with the ad exec’s wild dreams. From my friend’s description – and he is talented and thus paints a great picture – it sounded hysterical. The pilot was gettng jerked around by station reps, but it’s scrapped now, of course. ☹ This isn’t entirely accurate. Hoffman’s show was definitely a go and they were just waiting for his Hunger Games commitment to end to start filming the rest of the first season. There was no jerking around and Showtime just showed the pilot to critics, who loved it. I also read yesterday that Showtime may show the pilot as a one-off because it was so well-received by critics. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/153 "2014-02-04T16:27:23Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > The first Paul Thomas Anderson film we saw was an absolutely wonderful little gem entitled [Hard Eight](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119256/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_49). It came out in 1996, the year before _Boogie Nights_. I knew Hoffman was an Anderson favorite, but I didn’t realize he was in _Hard Eight_. Listed as “Young Craps Player.” It’s been years since I watched it. We had a videotape of it, that’s how long it’s been. We’ll have to try to find the DVD. GREAT movie! Philip Baker Hall, John C. Reilly, and Philip Seymour Hoffman as the “young craps player” who goads P. B. Hall into going for “Hard Eight!” Good performances by Gwyneth Paltrow and Samuel L. Jackson as well! (Wonder why Gwyneth didn’t use a middle name or initial? Everyone else did!) Check it out! RIP Philip! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/154 "2014-02-04T16:27:38Z")
I’d certainly like to see it. I admit I’d totally forgotten his roles in _Boogie Nights_ and _Twister_; I first noticed and loved him as the obsequious, buttoned-down Brandt in _The Big Lebowski_. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/155 "2014-02-04T22:34:32Z")
I always found movies he was in hard to watch because he gave off a bit of a creepy vibe. Still sucks that he died. I don’t really feel bad for him, he did it to himself, but for his family and especially his kids, I feel really bad. They don’t deserve to not have a dad. Maybe Hollywood needs to start drug testing. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/156 "2014-02-05T13:12:17Z")
Source: 4 arrested in Hoffman drug probe. > **[Source: 4 arrested in connection with drugs in Hoffman's apartment | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-death/?c=&page=0)** > > Source: Four people thought to be connected to the drugs found in Philip Seymour Hoffman’s house were arrested ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/157 "2014-02-05T15:23:04Z")
> [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > Source: 4 arrested in Hoffman drug probe. > [http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-death/?c=&page=0](http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-death/?c=&page=0) Also from that article: > [@](#): > > **No fentanyl found** > Preliminary tests Tuesday showed the heroin recovered from the apartment does not contain fentanyl, a law enforcement official told CNN. More testing will be done. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/158 "2014-02-07T19:52:23Z")
Coverage of his funeral: [http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/07/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-funeral/index.html?hpt=hp\_t2](http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/07/showbiz/philip-seymour-hoffman-funeral/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/159 "2014-02-07T20:37:28Z")
There’s a lot of people who’ve had to struggle through life that would appreciate having a career and money and people saying how great their work is. He couldn’t hire a babysitter to be his mentor? The more I think about it the madder I get. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364/160 "2014-02-07T21:51:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He couldn’t hire a babysitter to be his mentor? The more I think about it the madder I get. Yeah! How dare those heroin addicts use poor judgement! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-seymour-hoffman-has-died/680364.md?page=9)