# Philip Wylie . . . yet another forgotten novelist . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 6, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757 "2004-05-06T01:59:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/1 "2004-05-06T01:59:09Z")
I found a 1952 Pocket Paperback of Philip Wylie’s _Opus 21_ (1949) in my mother’s closet, and am enjoying the hell out of it–what a bitter, dark, funny sonofabitch the guy was! I can’t find much of anything about him online, other than bibliographies. No biographical material (except “1902-1971”), no critiques of his work. Any Wylie fans here? Any recommendations of other books of his? I’m only on page 61 of _Opus 21_, so please, no spoilers! ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/2 "2004-05-06T02:04:12Z")
I acquired a copy of “Gladiator,” which some people have speculated might have been the inspiration for such heroes as Superman and Doc Savage. Unfortunately, I got it about the same time I moved, and it’s still packed up in one of my boxes, still unread. Sounds like time for some spring cleaning in the moving boxes. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/3 "2004-05-06T02:06:21Z")
Is that the same guy who co-wrote When Worlds Collide & After Worlds Collide w/Edwin Balmer? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/4 "2004-05-06T02:09:14Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Is that the same guy who co-wrote When Worlds Collide & After Worlds Collide w/Edwin Balmer? Yep. Dunno if he had any connection with _About Three Months Before Worlds Collide_, though. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/5 "2004-05-06T02:15:42Z")
I’ve read a few of his books (the two _Worlds_ book, his _Gladiator_ and his final book, _The End of The Dream_. You’re right, he’s a wonderfully pessimistic author. (_Opus 21_ and a few others are also on my “to read” list. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/6 "2004-05-06T02:18:21Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Yep. Dunno if he had any connection with _About Three Months Before Worlds Collide_, though. I read these two books in high school (1977-1981) about a dozen times. About five years after I graduated I saw the librarian from the school. She mentioned the school was getting rid of a bunch of old and/or outdated books and remembered seeing my name on the checkout card of this book (it was a 1960 edition w/both volumes in one book) and asked me if I wanted it. It’s a bit worn and the cover had suffered quite a bit of insect damge and there’s some writing on a few of the pages, but it now sits on my bookshelf. There was talk of doing an updated version of the George Pal movie, but I haven’t heard anything lately. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/7 "2004-05-06T02:21:35Z")
And Holy Cow! They even made a movie of [Gladiator](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0030186/combined), starring macho man of another era, Joe E. Brown. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/8 "2004-05-06T02:25:13Z")
> [@Earl Snake-Hips Tucker](#): > > I acquired a copy of “Gladiator,” which some people have speculated might have been the inspiration for such heroes as Superman and Doc Savage. > > Unfortunately, I got it about the same time I moved, and it’s still packed up in one of my boxes, still unread. > > Sounds like time for some spring cleaning in the moving boxes. . . . Tell us how it is when you finally get around to it! As a comic book fan, I’ve always been curious about the book, and I’ve never found a cheap enough copy to buy. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/9 "2004-05-06T03:03:42Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I found a 1952 Pocket Paperback of Philip Wylie’s _Opus 21_ (1949) in my mother’s closet, and am enjoying the hell out of it–what a bitter, dark, funny sonofabitch the guy was! > > I can’t find much of anything about him online, other than bibliographies. No biographical material (except “1902-1971”), no critiques of his work. Any Wylie fans here? Any recommendations of other books of his? The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction has a decent article on him. He’s not forgotten among science-fiction fans: **Gladiator** and **When Worlds Collide** are two minor classics (ok, **Gladiator** isn’t a classic…but it’s still good from what I remember from 20-some years ago.) He also did a dreadful piece of turgid schlock called **The Disappearance** about a world where all the women suddenly vanish to one dimension and the men to another. The SF Encyclopedia likes it quite a lot as the editors think it “ingeniously assaults the double standard”, which, given the dubious tastes of the editors (hint: even if it agrees with your pet agendas, it can _still_ be bad) means that my (20-some year old) memory of the book is probably correct that it was ham-handed, didactic and shrill. I’ve got another couple of books by him: **Tomorrow!** and **Triumph** , neither of which I remember anything about. If anyone cares, I can dig 'em up and give a brief back cover synopsis for each. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/10 "2004-05-06T04:39:38Z")
His most famous piece of nonfiction, _Generation of Vipers_, is still in print. It’s pretty vicious, too. I even think I read it umpty-ump years ago, not long after reading _When Worlds Collide_ and _After Worlds Collide_. Do a search on the major online booksellers’ websites for _Generation of Vipers_ and you’ll find some information about it. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/11 "2004-05-06T05:31:20Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Tell us how it is when you finally get around to it! As a comic book fan, I’ve always been curious about the book, and I’ve never found a cheap enough copy to buy. It’s pretty dern good, actually. And you should be able to find a copy with relative ease–[Bison Books](http://www.nebraskapress.unl.edu/BisonFrontiers.html) recently reprinted it. If you look at the first appearance of Superman, you can clearly see where they’re ripping off _Gladiator_. The protagonist is delightfully human and amoral rather than being the hero that Superman is–he shacks up with prostitutes, wreaks havoc on the battlefields but doesn’t go after the enemy leaders, uses his strength to cheat at football… ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/12 "2004-05-06T05:40:57Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I found a 1952 Pocket Paperback of Philip Wylie’s _Opus 21_ (1949) in my mother’s closet, and am enjoying the hell out of it–what a bitter, dark, funny sonofabitch the guy was! > > I can’t find much of anything about him online, other than bibliographies. No biographical material (except “1902-1971”), no critiques of his work. Any Wylie fans here? Any recommendations of other books of his? > > I’m only on page 61 of _Opus 21_, so please, no spoilers! I remember reading two separate stories in one, I think it was called _The Disappearance_, in which, in the first story, all males in the world disappear and in the second, all the women. The stories were quaint amd sexist and seemed absurd because it skirted over the issue of homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/13 "2004-05-06T05:55:15Z")
In the 80s DC put out a title called “The Young All-Stars” which had a character called Arn “Iron” Munro. The creators used _Gladiator_ as the possible origin for Iron Munro’s father. The creator of the YAS had this odd theory about how, with various and sundry Golden Age DC heroes ret-conned out of existence in the Crisis, the “super hero energy” that would otherwise have gone into creating those heroes went elsewhere. “Iron” Munro was his idea for a “displaced energy” Golden Age Superman, and IIRC the Gladiator origin story was used as a nod to the idea that Gladiator was a pre-cursor/inspiration for Superman. Sorry, I’ll stop geeking now. Enjoy the book, **Eve**. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/14 "2004-05-06T13:14:41Z")
I’m not into sci-fi, but I might give _When Worlds Collide_ a try. I’ll check the NYPL for any Wylies. I’d prefer his hard-boiled social novels, I think. I’m surprised he skirted over homosexuality in _The Disappearance_s, as it’s already come up in _Opus 27_, and he makes it quite clear (in 1949!) that he considers it a quite natural variation of sexuality. Yeah, **Snake-Hips** , I always get Joe E. Brown and Russell Crowe mixed up, too . . . can see how they’d be right for the same roles . . . Russell Crowe to Jack Lemmon: “Naobody’s Pehfect!” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/15 "2004-05-06T13:37:09Z")
I’m surprised that no one’s mentioned his biggest mainstream success – **Generation of Vipers**. It always gets trotted out for bios and such. I’ve read **Gladiator**. It’s pretty good, and I’ve no doubt that it was one of the bases for **Superman**. (Siegel or Schuster even did a pre-Superman review of it in their SF 'zine when they were kids) Jim Steranko argues persuasively that it was one of the sources in his **History of Comics**. A copy of the book is on the old Nite-Owl’s bookcase in **The Watchmen**. **When Worlds Collide** was good, too (a lot better than the stupid movie George Pal made of it), but the sequel was stupid. George Pal was actually trying to get **The Disappearance** made into a film at the time he died. The magazine **cinefantastique** printed some of the pre-production sketches, which were incredibly risque. I’ve glanced through the book, but wasn’t impressed enough to actually buy it. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/16 "2004-05-06T13:42:10Z")
I read **The Disappearance**. I think **Fenris** ’ take on it is pretty fair – it’s not the best novel I ever read. The issue of homosexuality does indeed come up in the book, and his attitude is probably pretty advanced for his day, but it looks positively Neanderthal from today’s viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/17 "2004-05-06T14:25:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’m surprised that no one’s mentioned his biggest mainstream success – **Generation of Vipers**. It always gets trotted out for bios and such. So, what’s it about? ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/18 "2004-05-06T14:44:24Z")
Was his novel the basis for the movie “When Worlds Collide?” I love that flick. “Waste Anything But Time” is a sign that is prominently posted on the wall in one fo the workshops building the space ship. I’m always struck by how there will be no minorities in the New World, as none appeared to win the lottery and get a seat on the ship. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/19 "2004-05-06T14:50:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by CalMeacham > I’m surprised that no one’s mentioned his biggest mainstream success – Generation of Vipers. It always gets trotted out for bios and such. > So, what’s it about? It’s an essay. A rant. It’s been a long time, and I don’t really recall. . As the reviewers always said, it introduced the concept of “Momism”, which must have been a long better known in the early 1950s than now. Wylie saw mothers as a suffocating bunch, yet adored by their soldier sons. > [@](#): > > Was his novel the basis for the movie “When Worlds Collide?” I love that flick. > > “Waste Anything But Time” is a sign that is prominently posted on the wall in one fo the workshops building the space ship. > > I’m always struck by how there will be no minorities in the New World, as none appeared to win the lottery and get a seat on the ship. Yup. But they changed Wylie and Balmer’s “Bronson Alpha” to the science fictiony-sounding “Zyra” for no good reason, they built the takeoff ramp with absolutely no knowledge of physics, and the closing shot is a Chesley Bonestell painting that is easily the worst thing he’d ever done. (It’s _hard_ to make a great space artist like Bonestell look bad)\> Arthur C. Clarke wrote a review that’s been reprinted in a few places (and is probably on the 'net) poinrting out the films many failings. The film _does_ have its good points – Robert Bloch said it was one of the few SF films of the 1950s that really _was_ sf and not horror or fantasy. But I find it a disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757/20 "2004-05-06T15:01:00Z")
CalMeacham writes: \> I’m surprised that no one’s mentioned his biggest mainstream success – \> Generation of Vipers. What am I - invisible? I mentioned it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philip-wylie-yet-another-forgotten-novelist/243757.md?page=2)