# Philly Cheesesteaks: Pat's vs. Geno's, Whiz vs. Provolone **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 14, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428 "2014-05-14T10:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/21 "2014-05-14T20:33:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t know when Pat’s or Geno’s started the cheese whiz nonsense, but there is nothing original or authentic about ruining a cheesesteak that way. That was the kind of thing that used to be expected in Jersey or far north or west of Philadephia. Somehow this stupid idea caught on and people still down there tell me you’re more likely to get something good outside of the city now as a result. I tried many different cheesesteaks in the 70s when I lived there and don’t recall anyone inside the city, out to Paoli or as far north as Easton using cheese whiz. My first cheesesteak in Philadelphia was at Pat’s in 1989 or 1990 and the guy taking my order told me whiz was the original and usual. Again, he may have been pulling the leg of the high school kid from Maryland. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/22 "2014-05-14T20:37:18Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > My first cheesesteak in Philadelphia was at Pat’s in 1989 or 1990 and the guy taking my order told me whiz was the original and usual. Again, he may have been pulling the leg of the high school kid from Maryland. 😛 No, he was just full of crap. Maybe it was the original at Pats, but these sandwiches were made for decades, and I think before commercial cheese sauces were available. Pat’s and Geno’s have done well off their competition, I don’t begrudge them that, but it’s damn difficult to get a decent cheesesteak outside of the Philly area, I can’t stand what they’ve done to change the definition of one of those perfect dishes. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/23 "2014-05-14T20:53:54Z")
Reheating and serving up in Cafe Society. From IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/24 "2014-05-14T21:30:53Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Pat’s & Gino’s are for tourists and suck balls. Any hole-in-the-wall pizza place in Philly can make a better cheesesteak. Exactly! Any place that is the one that everyone says you have to visit is, at best, mediocre to bad. Pat’s and Ginos for cheesesteaks in Philadelphia, Uno and Gino’s East for pizza in Chicago, Bryant’s and Gates for BBQ in Kansas City - generally if it’s famous and filled with people from out of town, it has been coasting on it’s fame forever. Best cheesesteak I had in Philly was at the train station. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/25 "2014-05-14T21:40:07Z")
I like Pat’s just fine. With, Whiz. Works for me. But Philly’s roast pork sandwiches are where it’s at. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/26 "2014-05-14T21:47:13Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Exactly! > > Any place that is the one that everyone says you have to visit is, at best, mediocre to bad. Pat’s and Ginos for cheesesteaks in Philadelphia, Uno and Gino’s East for pizza in Chicago, Bryant’s and Gates for BBQ in Kansas City - generally if it’s famous and filled with people from out of town, it has been coasting on it’s fame forever. > > Best cheesesteak I had in Philly was at the train station. Uno’s is fine. (Not much of a fan of Gino’s though.) I’m a bit contrarian when it comes to this. While I can point you to a number of places I like better than Uno’s, it is a solid pie, the progenitor of the style, and a bit of Chicago history. I find that the most famous places are never as bad as some locals may tell you. Pat’s was my favorite steak in Philly, though locals pointed me to Jim’s and some hole on the wall I forget. I was assured that Anchor Bar’s wings in Buffalo were not very good, but I preferred them to both Duff’s locations, and the local pizza joint ones. They were solid wings and it was worth the pilgrimage. I find that a lot wherever I go-- there’s a backlash against the well-known spots, that they’re “tourist traps” (even though you see a ton of locals there), etc. I find it’s worth trying the famous place, especially if it was the progenitor of the food, and work outward from there. I’ve never been disappointed. Even Rendezvous in Memphis, which has an odd idiosyncratic rib that really isn’t barbecue but more some kind of grilled ribs, was awesome. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/27 "2014-05-14T21:56:56Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Pat’s & Gino’s are for tourists and suck balls. Any hole-in-the-wall pizza place in Philly can make a better cheesesteak. > > No vote This. When I was working in NJ a few years ago, I drove the 70 miles down to Philly and got one of each and brought them back ( I went to Philly to go to the Mutter Museum and then I decided to get a cheesesteak). Both were pretty average. I have had better cheesesteaks from restaurants elsewhere around the country. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/28 "2014-05-14T22:14:17Z")
You need to go to NYC for the best cheesecake. Namely Junior’s or Greenberg. ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/29 "2014-05-14T23:38:39Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > Only been to Philly twice and didn’t get cheese steaks either time. So I didn’t vote. > > However, cheese steaks here in the DC area suck… which I’ve been told is because of the lousy bread. > > ETA: Which makes me wonder how good would a cheese steak be in Paris… made with Parisien baguettes. cheese steaks outside of philly in general seem to suck ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/30 "2014-05-15T00:03:20Z")
American with. Provolone will be a lot less greasy, but I like greasy. I’ll be fair and say that I’ve never actually tried Gino’s, but Pat’s is significantly better than any of the other cheesesteaks I had in the Philadelphia area. Jim’s, which is the name that comes up most often when people say “Don’t go to Pat’s or Gino’s, they’re tourist traps”, seemed to have missed the memo that food is supposed to have flavor. The ones at the Villanova on-campus place (many of which I made myself) were decent. The dive just off campus was better. Pat’s, though, was better than either. Only once have I found a place outside of the Delaware Valley that made a decent cheesesteak, a sandwich shop in Montana called Pickle Barrel (though they default to adding barbeque sauce, that you have to tell them to leave off). Ironically, they’re also the only place I’ve seen outside of the Delaware valley that doesn’t call their cheesesteak a “Philadelphia cheesesteak”. I really don’t understand: It’s a very simple sandwich, and you can’t really screw it up without trying pretty hard. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/31 "2014-05-15T00:05:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Paoli or as far north as Easton using cheese whiz. Paoli? I used to live there:) It is a rarely mentioned place. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/32 "2014-05-15T00:10:48Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Paoli? I used to live there:) It is a rarely mentioned place. I lived in Strafford from 1970-78. Part of that time at the infamous Devon-Strafford apartments. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/33 "2014-05-15T00:28:36Z")
I’ve been places where they put lettuce, tomato, and mayo on a cheese steak. Never in PA, though, but in OH and points West. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/34 "2014-05-15T00:39:08Z")
The White House in Atlantic City, with provolone and grilled peppers and onions. It’s the cheesesteak of my childhood! (My grandparents lived 10 minutes down the shore.) ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/35 "2014-05-15T01:04:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Uno’s is fine. (Not much of a fan of Gino’s though.) I’m a bit contrarian when it comes to this. While I can point you to a number of places I like better than Uno’s, it is a solid pie, the progenitor of the style, and a bit of Chicago history. I find that the most famous places are never as bad as some locals may tell you. Pat’s was my favorite steak in Philly, though locals pointed me to Jim’s and some hole on the wall I forget. I was assured that Anchor Bar’s wings in Buffalo were not very good, but I preferred them to both Duff’s locations, and the local pizza joint ones. They were solid wings and it was worth the pilgrimage. I find that a lot wherever I go-- there’s a backlash against the well-known spots, that they’re “tourist traps” (even though you see a ton of locals there), etc. I find it’s worth trying the famous place, especially if it was the progenitor of the food, and work outward from there. I’ve never been disappointed. Even Rendezvous in Memphis, which has an odd idiosyncratic rib that really isn’t barbecue but more some kind of grilled ribs, was awesome. I’m with you. Rendezvous is pretty much barbecue, but it’s just cooked over charcoal. They aren’t particularly smokey, but I think they’re unique and delicious. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/36 "2014-05-15T01:24:52Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m with you. > Rendezvous is pretty much barbecue, but it’s just cooked over charcoal. They aren’t particularly smokey, but I think they’re unique and delicious. It’s in a really weird middle zone, depending on how strict you want to define barbecue. It’s cooked directly (although far away) over charcoal, so many will consider it grilling. They taste more grilled than barbecued. That said, I love Cozy Corner BBQ’s spare ribs as well, and they are also cooked over charcoal (in an aquarium-type smoker–the only aquarium smoker I’ve seen outside the Chicago and Milwaukee areas). Regardless of whatever you call them, they are pretty much unique, and I loved them. But it is one of those polarizing joints. So many people told me “oh, only tourists go there” or “it’s not barbecue” etc., etc., and even though I can be a bit of a barbecue purist at times, I really enjoyed their product and crave it every so often. I’m so glad I ignored the people and didn’t just assume because it’s the famous joint in town, it’s overhyped and not worth going to. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/37 "2014-05-15T01:32:19Z")
When you go to Philadelphia you need to get the “philly Taco” really. It’s a slice of Lorenzo’s pizza wrapped around Jim’s cheesesteak. Yummy. (FTR I’ve heard rumors Lorenzo’s may be no longer I’ll find out this weekend). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/38 "2014-05-15T01:34:37Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > \*and I know that, despite this clarification, some will still steer the conversation toward Tony Luke’s, Campo’s, Shank’s, etc.[/SIZE] By the way, you should have made that a bit bigger. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/39 "2014-05-15T02:08:15Z")
I don’t understand the absolute disdain that people feel towards Pat’s. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that it is a tourist trap. But, so what? It is a tourist trap, partly, because the sandwich is delicious. I don’t think it is the best in the city. (I’d probably go with Joe’s. I’m interested in seeing how their new location in Fishtown works out.) But, I do think it is a tasty bite. Going there is almost always a fun experience. Is it right after the Phillies games? You’re going to see some fellow fans there, or perhaps fans of the other team. Middle of the afternoon? The line will go around the block. (no thanks.) As far as Whiz goes. It wasn’t even invented when cheese steaks first came about about in the 30s and 40s. The first cheese steaks didn’t even have cheese. (I don’t know how they got away with calling them cheese steaks without having any cheese on it. That’s the depression for you.) Eventually they added cheese, but not Cheez Whiz until the '50s. I always order mine Whiz Without. Pat’s beats Geno’s for cheese steaks by a country mile. Geno’s beats Pat’s for cheese fries, though. > [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > When you go to Philadelphia you need to get the “philly Taco” really. It’s a slice of Lorenzo’s pizza wrapped around Jim’s cheesesteak. Yummy. (FTR I’ve heard rumors Lorenzo’s may be no longer I’ll find out this weekend). They were closed for awhile after a fire, but they are open again. I’ve never experienced that flavor combination, in fact I haven’t heard of it until recently. That’s a lot of food! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428/40 "2014-05-15T02:11:50Z")
> [@Jay4](#): > > cheese steaks outside of philly in general seem to suck My general rule: If the menu calls it a “Philly Cheesesteak,” it will suck. The real thing is just called a “Cheesesteak.” And, yeah: The best ones to me are found at Tony Luke’s…provolone wit fried onions and long hots. Many neighborhood places will make a good one too. That said, it’s been years since I’ve been to Pat’s or Geno’s. So, no vote for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-cheesesteaks-pats-vs-genos-whiz-vs-provolone/688428.md?page=3)