# Philly swimming pool kicks out black kids, "doesn't allow minorities" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355 "2009-07-08T19:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/1 "2009-07-08T19:15:29Z")
[This is kind of a jaw dropper](http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pool-Boots-Kids-Who-Might-Change-the-Complexion.html) > [@](#): > > More than 60 campers from Northeast Philadelphia were turned away from a private swim club and left to wonder if their race was the reason. > > “I heard this lady, she was like, ‘Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?’ She’s like, ‘I’m scared they might do something to my child,’” said camper Dymire Baylor. > > The Creative Steps Day Camp paid more than $1900 to The Valley Swim Club. The Valley Swim Club is a private club that advertises open membership. But the campers’ first visit to the pool suggested otherwise. > > “When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool,” Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. “The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately.” The next day the club cancelled the camp’s membership and said they would refund their money. The president of the swim club had this to offer in terms of an explanation: > [@](#): > > “There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club,” John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement. Oh, well, you wouldn’t want to change the complexion. That’s perfectly understandable. How the fuck is this even legal? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/2 "2009-07-08T19:19:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How the fuck is this even legal? It’s a private club, and they gave the money back. ---
**Author:** ![Claire\_Beauchamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@Claire\_Beauchamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claire_Beauchamp)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/3 "2009-07-08T19:20:10Z")
Private clubs are still allowed to restrict membership to whomever they like. And, I hope all the folks who think _only_ Southerners can possibly be racist (and, conversely, that all Southerners _are_ racist) will notice where this happened. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/4 "2009-07-08T19:21:09Z")
It should be noted that Philadelphia is [45% white, 43.2% black](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Philadelphia). “Minority” is a bit of a misnomer. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/5 "2009-07-08T19:23:42Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > It’s a private club, and they gave the money back. And this is really why I can’t get too riled up about this. Racism in any form sucks, but I also have a hard time telling private business owners what they can and can’t do; who they can and can’t allow. I’d be pissed, for sure, if it happened to me – but this is why people can vote with their wallets. Oy, here come the flames. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/6 "2009-07-08T19:29:40Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > And this is really why I can’t get too riled up about this. Racism in any form sucks, but I also have a hard time telling private business owners what they can and can’t do; who they can and can’t allow. I’d be pissed, for sure, if it happened to me – but this is why people can vote with their wallets. Agreed. We can still call them dicks, though, assuming the racism reason is true. (News stories like this tend to be pretty dubious until all the facts come out.) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/7 "2009-07-08T19:29:58Z")
[http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html](http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html) That is a jaw-dropper. I perused their membership rules and didn’t find any mention whatsoever of “no minorities allowed”. Maybe it’s one of those unspoken rules. ---
**Author:** ![Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@Ichini\_Sanshigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichini_Sanshigo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/8 "2009-07-08T19:31:25Z")
It may be perfectly legal, but the club owners are still shitheads. Besides the obvious reasons, who is stupid enough in this day and age, in this economy, to turn away customers? Icky black money spends just as well. I’m not particularly outraged, just amused at their business prowess (or lack thereof). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/9 "2009-07-08T19:32:08Z")
Why do they advertise open membership? Even if it’s legal, it’s still a scummy thing to tell a bunch of black kids that they have to leave because of their skin color. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/10 "2009-07-08T19:32:43Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > [http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html](http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html) > > That is a jaw-dropper. I perused their membership rules and didn’t find any mention whatsoever of “no minorities allowed”. Maybe it’s one of those unspoken rules. Ditto. Perhaps seeing 60 “minorities” show up all at once gave them the vapors, hence the new rule. Yeah, they’re a private club so I guess they can do this if they want, but if I had previously had a membership with these dicks, I’d cancel it immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/11 "2009-07-08T19:33:00Z")
So I can open a restaurant and put a sign that says “no coloreds”? Or do I have to actually create a supper club? Are these two scenarios different? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/12 "2009-07-08T19:33:26Z")
> [@Claire\_Beauchamp](#): > > Private clubs are still allowed to restrict membership to whomever they like. > > And, I hope all the folks who think _only_ Southerners can possibly be racist (and, conversely, that all Southerners _are_ racist) will notice where this happened. They say they are private, but are they really? IANAL, but my guess is that if they accept any government money or services, they may not be as private as they think. Also, I would suggest that, private or not, they had a binding contract with the camp, freely negotiated by the club’s representatives with whatever policies they have in place known to them or ought to have been known to them, yet they entered into it anyway, and then failed to perform while causing incalculable damages to not only the poor kids in the camp, but the other kids too who were forced to adhere to damaging policies, and I am sure a jury and court would be happy to try to figure out what the damages ought to be thank you very much your honor. This is gonna cost that camp a bit more than $1900 to fix now I suppose. I hope they have a paid up “racist insurance” policy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/13 "2009-07-08T19:35:06Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > And this is really why I can’t get too riled up about this. Racism in any form sucks, but I also have a hard time telling private business owners what they can and can’t do; who they can and can’t allow. A private club can allow anyone they want to be a member, and deny membership to anyone they don’t want. Private clubs don’t have to follow the same rules as a “public accommodation” like a restaurant. For the record “allow” only means that I can’t ask the government to jail them or shut them down. “Allow” does not mean that I have to accept their racism with a big “Oh well, it’s a private club, they can do what they want.” They can do what they want, and I can do what I want, which is to hope that folks like Al Sharpton take up this cause, and descend on this club like a swarm of locusts, causing them to lose membership, go out of business, and be forced to sell out to a group that isn’t run by a bunch of stinking racists. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/14 "2009-07-08T19:35:44Z")
Interesting. So what qualifies a business as being “private”. Paying for access? So could Costco and Sam’s Club prohibit minorities just because they wanted to? Are private schools allowed to prohibit blacks and hispanics just because? It’s hard to believe anti-discrimination laws don’t apply to places just becasue they label themselves “private”. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/15 "2009-07-08T19:37:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why do they advertise open membership? > > Even if it’s legal, it’s still a scummy thing to tell a bunch of black kids that they have to leave because of their skin color. Maybe it was their behavior. Or some reason other than their skin color. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/16 "2009-07-08T19:37:43Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > So I can open a restaurant and put a sign that says “no coloreds”? Or do I have to actually create a supper club? Are these two scenarios different? Yes - restaurants and stores that serve the general public are considered public accomodations and thus can’t discriminate. Private clubs and religious organizations are specifically recognized as not being public accomodations - they are free in most regards to do what they want. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/17 "2009-07-08T19:39:13Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > And this is really why I can’t get too riled up about this. Racism in any form sucks, but I also have a hard time telling private business owners what they can and can’t do; who they can and can’t allow. I’d be pissed, for sure, if it happened to me – but this is why people can vote with their wallets. > > Oy, here come the flames. I hope not. Because you’re right. If people are willing to stand up for their incredibly small, ugly, nasty, vile prejudices in a very public way, I’m glad. I much prefer that people be honest about exactly how disgusting they are, that makes them easy to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/18 "2009-07-08T19:39:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe it was their behavior. Or some reason other than their skin color. They said “we don’t allow minorities.” ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/19 "2009-07-08T19:40:20Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > And this is really why I can’t get too riled up about this. Racism in any form sucks, but I also have a hard time telling private business owners what they can and can’t do; who they can and can’t allow. I’d be pissed, for sure, if it happened to me – but this is why people can vote with their wallets. > > Oy, here come the flames. No, I agree…to an extent. I believe that I have no right to tell a private club who they can or can’t admit, and I also prefer prejudices (racial or otherwise) out in the open, where I can make my own decisions based upon that information. Decisions, for example, such as “these people are racist assbags, and in addition to refusing them even a dime of my money, I’ll bring others’ attention to this and encourage them do the same.” This is because my opinion of whether an action should be legal in no way informs my opinion of the action itself, nor the people involved, nor my personal response to any of it. Racial discrimination is of course deplorable, and where I disagree with you is that I believe people can, and _should_, get “riled up” about it. The hard part, as ever, is seperating these reactions and judgements from rational decisions about what can and cannot be forced upon others by legislation. I’m no fan of recreational outrage, but I have no problem at all with calling a spade a spade, or likewise, a group of prejudicial fucksticks exactly what they are…but there’s no written law against fuckstickery, and I don’t believe there ought to be. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/20 "2009-07-08T19:40:40Z")
Sure would like to see a list of the members of this “club”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355.md?page=2)