# Philly swimming pool kicks out black kids, "doesn't allow minorities" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355 "2009-07-08T19:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/181 "2009-07-09T16:21:02Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Cite for any of this? You keep claiming it was for a booking, but it wasn’t. Given the prices on their website, the camp got a MEMBERSHIP for each kid, which means you can come and go at ANY TIME. > > -snip- > > There is a fundamental assumption with all clubs that every member will not make use of the facilities at the same time. This true whether the club is a Fitness Club, Country Club or Sam’s Club. There is absolutely no reason to believe that by accepting 60 memberships, the club knew that all 60 would be making use of the facilities at one time. > > Anyway, keep feeling the manufactured outrage. Maybe sometime you’ll find a better purpose in life. that is not an assumption, as you say, fundamental or otherwise. It is a risk that they take that they can match staffing to the actual need as people arrive when they can only model how many will show up. I think we would agree that the root of the problem is that there was likely insufficient staffing (I hinted as much earlier), and worse, no way to rapidly adjust staffing if the arrival prediction turned out to be wrong. But there is nothing wrong if everyone shows up at once unexpectedly. that is a risk they take. Heck, something similar to that happened once when I was working a ta burger joint in high school. We had 3 sations in the kitchen someone had fries and hot dogs, I had the grill for burgers and steaks, and someone else handled puttin ght orders together to get them out the window to the wait staff. The orders came in the same window, and they were generally a mix of stuff from this station or that. We couldn’t see out to the dining area. Typical orders were anywhere from 1-5 meals. So one day, an unusually large order came in, on the order of 100 meals in a 40 seat place. Hmmm, that was maybe 15 times what a normal very large order would be. As I looked at it to see what I needed to do, it seemed every one of them was for my station, and not a whit of work was required by anyone else. And all of the orders for me were different from each other. How strange! Turns out my father, as a prank, got everyone he could get to come to the place unbeknownst to me (and to the great amusement of everyone else working) and order superficially from my part of the menu in difficult combinations. I wasn’t let in on the joke until I finished cooking everything. Which took a while, to be sure, not on the order of 5 minutes but maybe closer than 30-40 minutes of frantic unplanned work during which no new arrivals could expect the usual level of service for grill items. So the point is, short term spikes in demand can wreak havoc with staffing, regardless of intentions. But if you open the gates, you have to deal with it. The way to solve that is to monitor at the gate before people are in, and maybe to slightly dampen demand, or at least peaks by noting via policy on the web and elsewhere, including at the gate, that management intends to not allow more people in than they are presently staffed for. No way you can blame the failure to manage staffing well, or to manage the crowd so it matches staffing levels on the kids. They just represent a peak in demand. It is management’s job to handle those gracefully when they occur, and they have or at least had graceful options available to them. this happens routinely at clubs, restaurants, stores, pretty much anyplace where crowds come and go. It is not rocket science. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/182 "2009-07-09T16:21:37Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Great! > > Maybe, next time, profaning my wife is off limits. Small steps! Buddy, you may want to review the nasty things you’ve said about me in other threads before claiming the high ground here. No links because you aren’t worth the time. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/183 "2009-07-09T16:24:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Buddy, you may want to review the nasty things you’ve said about me in other threads before claiming the high ground here. No links because you aren’t worth the time. I think this says a lot about you. I don’t give a damn that you can’t seem to address me or anybody else without insulting them. But when it comes to insulting someone’s family, that’s crossing a line. A BIG line. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/184 "2009-07-09T16:25:16Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Seeing as this is the entirety of your first post… > > …I don’t exactly see anything there about “anyone truly contemplating whether the pool is a PA or a PC.” It was just patronizing, misguided ranting. That’s because you are not looking at the post where I modified that rant. Duke, if you are not able to fully participate in a thread, maybe you should not participate at all. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/185 "2009-07-09T16:36:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > That’s because you are not looking at the post where I modified that rant. > > Duke, if you are not able to fully participate in a thread, maybe you should not participate at all. Dude, you’re the one that claimed that, “unlike **Dio** ,” you carefully weighed all the evidence before making a post. But you haven’t even done that in this thread, especially as evidenced by the vehemence of your first post here. Your whole thesis here has been that, unlike those simpering liberals, you don’t let ideology and emotion color your analysis of the situation and you get it right the first time. Now you’re claiming that your first (totally wrong) rant in this thread didn’t count because…uh…hey, look over there, insult about posters’ families. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/186 "2009-07-09T16:43:04Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Heck, who in this day and age is stupid enough to think that they could change complexion because someone with a different skin color happens to be in the water? Well, in all fairness, there is a large and sudden glut of that type of water on the market now that Michael Jackson has stopped buying most of it. [/duck and cover, it’s a joke folks!] ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/187 "2009-07-09T17:01:58Z")
This article has a bit more info: [http://www.philly.com/philly/news/50346612.html](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/50346612.html) According to the camp’s director 1) The club was signed up to visit the club for 90 minutes a week. 2) The club’s board approved the camp being there. A first for the club. 3) The president (who made the complexion remark) was present and heard what members said and was embarrassed. 4) The members overruled the board’s decision over the protests of the club president. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/188 "2009-07-09T17:11:37Z")
Looks like the club has now shut down their Website. I got an “Error 403 - Forbidden You tried to access a document for which you don’t have privileges” message. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/189 "2009-07-09T17:19:08Z")
Not for nothin’ but it looks like the website for yonder club has disappeared (if that was already stated, mea culpa). Here’s what we know so far: 1. There’s nothing really illegal about what the pool did, though they do face potential civil punishment and well earned public scorn. 2. They’re dirty, rotten, filthy racists, if in fact they kicked the kids out for their skin color and not another reason. 3. Rand Rover is still a, wait, what are the new rules? I can never remember. Anyhow, he should take a long walk off a short pier. 4. The kids have someplace to swim and the lawyers will work this thing out one way or another. The Sam’s Club/Costco question is an interesting one. They let anyone shop, they do not however let anyone buy without a membership. They don’t, typically, restrict memberships, save for business owners that are tax exempt. They likely COULD say ‘whites only’ at either place, but the truth of capitalism tells us that the need for a gallon of mayonnaise, a five pound jar of pickles and a 50 pound sack of lucky charms cuts across all racial lines. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/190 "2009-07-09T17:19:16Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Dude, you’re the one that claimed that, “unlike **Dio** ,” you carefully weighed all the evidence before making a post. But you haven’t even done that in this thread, especially as evidenced by the vehemence of your first post here. > > Your whole thesis here has been that, unlike those simpering liberals, you don’t let ideology and emotion color your analysis of the situation and you get it right the first time. Now you’re claiming that your first (totally wrong) rant in this thread didn’t count because…uh…hey, look over there, insult about posters’ families. Duke, I said that Dio makes snap judgements then digs in his heels and won’t change when new evidence comes to light. I ranted at people for thinking that a PC is or should be illegal and then modified that rant when you pointed out that those posters could be thinking that the pool is really a PA and not a PC. I did what I said Dio doesn’t do. I never said anything about “getting it right the first time.” Therefore, your characterization of my posts is just as stupid and worthless as everything else you’ve done with your life. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/191 "2009-07-09T17:23:56Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > That’s right buddy, bear down, keep those heels dug in, let the righteous anger well up within you. > > If anyone reading this has not experienced a DtC thread before, this is how they go. DtC is clearly not a person to be reasoned with. He’s just here to shoehorn his liberal douche views into every possible situation, damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. Whereas you are the epitome of being a reasonable person, who actually reads and responds. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/192 "2009-07-09T17:24:06Z")
Bill Burr’s swimming bit just got turned on it’s head. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xvMoF4lAwmw/hqdefault.jpg "Bill Burr .... Racist Movies") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvMoF4lAwmw) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/193 "2009-07-09T17:25:26Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Wait. You said crossing the streams would be bad. > [@Duke](#): > > But how else are we going to defeat the Stay Puft Straw Man? LOL, that was great guys… ---
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/194 "2009-07-09T17:34:17Z")
Maybe some members of this “private” club rate some kind of “corporal” punishment! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/195 "2009-07-09T17:36:31Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Whereas you are the epitome of being a reasonable person, who actually reads and responds. :smack: Yes, and it’s nice of you to say so. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/196 "2009-07-09T17:47:03Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Looks like the club has now shut down their Website. I got an “Error 403 - Forbidden You tried to access a document for which you don’t have privileges” message. That’s just cause you’re black… ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/197 "2009-07-09T17:49:54Z")
Update. The kids are at a new pool. > **[Local – NBC10 Philadelphia](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/)** > > Breaking news and the stories that matter to your neighborhood. Investigations of the old pool still going on. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/198 "2009-07-09T17:51:07Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Not for nothin’ but it looks like the website for yonder club has disappeared (if that was already stated, mea culpa). > > Here’s what we know so far: > > 1. There’s nothing really illegal about what the pool did… We know this? How, exactly? > [@](#): > > The Sam’s Club/Costco question is an interesting one. They let anyone shop, they do not however let anyone buy without a membership. They don’t, typically, restrict memberships, save for business owners that are tax exempt. They likely COULD say ‘whites only’ at either place, but the truth of capitalism tells us that the need for a gallon of mayonnaise, a five pound jar of pickles and a 50 pound sack of lucky charms cuts across all racial lines. No, they could not say “whites only.” I don’t need to be a lawyer to tell you that the fig leaf of membership doesn’t suffice as a shield for discrimination when you’re open to _doing business_ with everyone except persons of some racial, ethnic, religious, or gender group. A private club that is just a bunch of like-minded people who know each other and are hanging out together can discriminate as much as it wants. If the [Alibi Club](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alibi_Club) doesn’t have any black members or women members (I don’t know if they do or not - just using them as a for-instance), that’s their business: they aren’t offering services to the general public under the guise of membership. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/199 "2009-07-09T18:04:52Z")
Great, so now the kids can spend their summer Monday afternoons swimming - indoors in a tank instead of outdoors in the sun and fresh air in a park-like setting around other human beings too. Better than nothing I suppose. I am sure as they grow up they will realize what a great favor the club members did them. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/200 "2009-07-09T18:06:33Z")
Well, I still think the club members are total dicks, but personally speaking I somewhat prefer indoor pools, just because you don’t have to worry about sunburn. I wonder if there is any kind of boycott or protest happening at the original club. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355.md?page=11)