# Philly swimming pool kicks out black kids, "doesn't allow minorities" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355 "2009-07-08T19:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/241 "2009-07-09T23:38:48Z")
The swim club’s [website](http://www.thevalleyclub.com/)has been updated: > [@](#): > > The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism which are completely untrue. > > We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps. All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future. > > Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/242 "2009-07-09T23:41:09Z")
See. Racism indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/243 "2009-07-09T23:50:54Z")
They would never say that just to cover their asses, so we know they must mean every word of it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/244 "2009-07-10T00:04:12Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > The board of directors of this pool may well have contracted to let the camp group in at a certain time for a certain price but I bet they didn’t get approval from every single person member of the pool. I can only imagine the outrage at my pool if 65 kids showed up one afternoon when all the (member) moms are there with their precious darlings. I’ve seen some bitter disputes at Saturday morning swim meets, which are well advertised, when a parent shows up with junior only to be turned away. The politics of a private pool are not pretty. > > Here is the DC area, spring time bring bus loads of kids from across the nation for week long visits. Those groups contract with the local public rec center pools to give the kids some pool time, for something to do. The reaction of some people to a couple of busses disgorging kids into “their” pool is often not pretty and it’s not really race - it’s about people not liking kids, or at least not strange kids, in large numbers. I have heard some nasty comments from people. Most of the time the kids are white, mid-west types so I haven’t heard anything too racial but I wouldn’t be surprised if some douche-bags went there. Of course, the pool in question may well have douche-bags that just happen to be racists too. Quote from a club member: Jim Flynn, who said he was one of the club members who made a complaint against the children, said it was not racially motivated. “There were a lot of children in the pool and not enough lifeguards,” he said. “As general members, we were not told that they were coming. If we knew, we could decide to not come when the pool was crowded or come anyway. We could have had an option.” Link: [Swim club accused of racial discrimination against kids - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html) Interesting, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/245 "2009-07-10T00:06:01Z")
> [@pricciar](#): > > The swim club’s [website](http://www.thevalleyclub.com/)has been updated: Which begs the question…was this particular camp the only one that got money refunded because “they couldn’t handle the crowds versus the outrage of the members”, or not? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/246 "2009-07-10T00:09:38Z")
> [@pricciar](#): > > The swim club’s [website](http://www.thevalleyclub.com/)has been updated: I love those multi-ethnic pictures they had up yesterday. Were those taken the day they hosted the albino convention? Hasn’t this club been there since 1954 or so? Cant get to web site now…they don’t knwo their capacity? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/247 "2009-07-10T00:23:12Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > I love those multi-ethnic pictures they had up yesterday. Were those taken the day they hosted the albino convention? > > Hasn’t this club been there since 1954 or so? Cant get to web site now…they don’t knwo their capacity? Not to mention they “underestimated” their capacity. Heh–when you’re backpedaling, keep a dictionary handy. I suspect the kids were extra-rowdy, the white members got persnickety, and the decision to revoke the camp’s privileges was made in ignorance of this thing called the information age. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/248 "2009-07-10T00:46:33Z")
Ah an interesting tidbit: [http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html) > [@](#): > > “He [Jim Flynn, who said he was one of the club members who made a complaint against the children] said two other day-care centers, neither of which included minority children, had previously been similarly disinvited.” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/249 "2009-07-10T00:52:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I suspect the kids were extra-rowdy, the white members got persnickety, and the decision to revoke the camp’s privileges was made in ignorance of this thing called the information age. If the kids were extra rowdy, the fact that the “ejectors” happened to be racists that were gettting rid of dark skinned kids would be irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/250 "2009-07-10T01:01:48Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > I love those multi-ethnic pictures they had up yesterday. Were those taken the day they hosted the albino convention? > > Hasn’t this club been there since 1954 or so? Cant get to web site now…they don’t knwo their capacity? When I was growing up a few miles from there, “multi-ethnic” meant Poles, Irish **and** Italians were present. And to be fair, if there aren’t a lot of black residents living near the club, you wouldn’t expect them to have a lot of black members. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/251 "2009-07-10T01:03:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Amen and hallelujah. Quoted so DtC reads it twice. Goodness mary and joseph. Rand and I are on the same side? Please haul my out the back now and shoot me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/252 "2009-07-10T01:10:41Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Quotation marks are also used for other “things” for example. He used quotes around a phrase that was supposed to have been a precis of something somebody else said. Do you not see why that was a dumb idea? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/253 "2009-07-10T01:22:26Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > When I was growing up a few miles from there, “multi-ethnic” meant Poles, Irish **and** Italians were present. And to be fair, if there aren’t a lot of black residents living near the club, you wouldn’t expect them to have a lot of black members. I hear you - I grew up in Central Nj - in the 70s we attended a place like that, I am sure it was all white, but multi-ethnic as you say. Within a year though everyone got thier own pools in their yards. I wonder what ever happened to that place? Probably houses there now. Been in ultra-diverse CA for a long time, planning a trip to family on Jersey Shore in a few weeks for the first time in 5 years, I expect to feel like a fish out of water when everyone looks like me. As for these more recent quotes attributed to the club and members, they smack of “meeting with the lawyer and a hastily hired crisis management guy” to me. Didn’t the club pres or board say earlier this was the first time they did this? It is just PR posturing but still… ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/254 "2009-07-10T05:13:10Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Ah an interesting tidbit: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html) > [@](#): > > “He [Jim Flynn, who said he was one of the club members who made a complaint against the children] said two other day-care centers, neither of which included minority children, had previously been similarly disinvited.” Ok…here’s a question: if this is true, why did the club yet again accept a booking for a large group? How many times does it take before someone puts out a memo to the employees, “please do not book groups of over 50/40/30/however many kids is deemed to be too many”? Is that supposed to be the argument the guy’s trying to make- they’re not racist, they’re just incompetent boobs who repeatedly forget the size of their own club? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/255 "2009-07-10T05:33:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He used quotes around a phrase that was supposed to have been a precis of something somebody else said. Do you not see why that was a dumb idea? It WAS a descriptive label in front of the word sentence, to describe in shorthand what the sentence was about. Its not that complicated. Its okay if you are too dense to understand that. But now he has explained it, so get over it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/256 "2009-07-10T09:43:11Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Quote from a club member: > > Jim Flynn, who said he was one of the club members who made a complaint against the children, said it was not racially motivated. > > “There were a lot of children in the pool and not enough lifeguards,” he said. “As general members, we were not told that they were coming. If we knew, we could decide to not come when the pool was crowded or come anyway. We could have had an option.” > > Link: [Swim club accused of racial discrimination against kids - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/09/philly.pool/index.html) > > Interesting, to say the least. That makes no sense att all. I mean, the members that go to the pool on Monday afternoons might’ve theoretically been pissed by the unexpected appearance of five dozen kids disturbing their tranquility, but there would have been nothing unexpected about the kids’ future visits: they were going to come every Monday afternoon through the first week of August. And disinviting the day camp could obviously undo only the day camp’s quite predictable future visits, so this holds no water. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/257 "2009-07-10T10:07:39Z")
If there were too many kids in the pool, that’s when the club steps up and renegotiates the contract so that only umpity-ump kids can be brought at one time. It still would have sucked for the camp (and if I were the camp, I’d be asking for transportation costs), but at least it would have been better than banning everyone. The immediate alternative would have been to let some of the kids in the pool while the others just hungout somewhere (with the other counselors), and then rotate. By the following week, the club could have hired enough part-time life guards to handle the crowd and it wouldn’t have been a news event. Also if the club members hadn’t been informed, that’s the club’s incompetence, not the camp. The camp had a deal with the club just as sure as the members had a deal with the club. Why not just tell the members about the situation way before the first visit is supposed to happen and let the individual membership decide if they can handle sharing a pool with that many children. But kicking them all out, and not only that, doing it in front of the children? Racist or not, it’s just dumb PR. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/258 "2009-07-10T11:40:16Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If the kids were extra rowdy, the fact that the “ejectors” happened to be racists that were gettting rid of dark skinned kids would be irrelevant. If they said, “We don’t allow minorities,” then yes, it would be relevant. People seem to think that kids live in a state of racial innocence, but that’s nonsense: kids IME are highly aware of racial tensions that run through their society. And if a bunch of black kids are kicked out of a pool by a bunch of white people, they will certainly perceive it as a racist action, unless it’s made very clear that it isn’t. I may be misreading you, but it sounds as if you’re implying that ejecting the kids for being extra-rowdy is copacetic. I disagree. Unless “extra-rowdy” means behaving unsafely or extremely offensively, rowdiness is to be expected at a swimming pool, among children. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/259 "2009-07-10T12:12:44Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > That isn’t what she’s saying. Her point was some amalgamation of “well what about the children. the poor children!” and some neo-communist drivel that finds it reprehensible that private property owners can choose to do whatever the hell they want within the bounds of the law. When those private property owners choose to use their property for racism then it is reprehensible. It wasn’t those kids fault utter wastes of flesh choose to kidnap their ancestors for sadistic abuse and slavery, nor is it their fault utter wastes of flesh continue to keep the tradition of abuse alive. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/260 "2009-07-10T13:37:14Z")
I’m willing to let the details come out. Many times I have been enjoying a nice quiet day at the pool when a metric shitload of kids (either race) show up and ruin the tranquility of the afternoon. And this has been at a public pool, so the most you can do is leave. Now, if I was paying an annual membership, I would certainly complain and the officers of the club would want to do something so as not to lose members. Kids don’t behave very well in general, but let them loose around a pool and they get a thousand times worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355.md?page=14)