# Philly swimming pool kicks out black kids, "doesn't allow minorities" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355 "2009-07-08T19:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/341 "2009-07-11T17:43:20Z")
Plus, if you get in a pool with a whole bunch of black folks, the blackness might rub off on you. Kinda how like putting a muddy towel in the laundry makes everything else in the load grungy. When you go black, you never go back. That’s a scary thought to some people. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/342 "2009-07-11T17:50:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Plus, if you get in a pool with a whole bunch of black folks, the blackness might rub off on you. If only this were true. Instead of freckles and sunburn I could have a nice tan. Just imagine the marketing possibilities! ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/343 "2009-07-11T23:21:57Z")
Just a note: the club claims it cancelled or turned down other camps where the members were not minorities, for the same reason: too many kids is not a good thing. Should be noted, too, that they claim a willingness this year to try accepting camps since several public pools in the area are closed due to budget constraints. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/344 "2009-07-12T01:51:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Having been a “minority” day camper back in the old ages, I can imagine them getting a real serious “you better behave” speech right before they disembarked from the bus. Kind of like, you’re in a different climate here, and we want to make a good first impression on these (rich white) folks. Follow the rules, be respectful, don’t make anyone say those camp kids weren’t raised right. So I can totally see these kids behaving themselves, if only out of shyness about being in a new place. Heh. I was one of two white guys on an elite summer basketball team back in the early 80’s. We used to get this talk every time we pulled up to a gym. It made me sad then, it is so much sadder that this is still happening almoet 30 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/345 "2009-07-12T09:26:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Having been a “minority” day camper back in the old ages, I can imagine them getting a real serious “you better behave” speech right before they disembarked from the bus. Kind of like, you’re in a different climate here, and we want to make a good first impression on these (rich white) folks. Follow the rules, be respectful, don’t make anyone say those camp kids weren’t raised right. So I can totally see these kids behaving themselves, if only out of shyness about being in a new place. I concur with this. I can’t speak for all blacks or even most of them, but during my school trips, we were very well-behaved. I distinctly remember going to the Detroit Zoo as a kid and walking in a single-file line behind the instructor and parent-guides; while the white children from another school were yelling, crying, tantrum-throwing, and generally had to be chased by their teachers. When thinking about children misbehaving in public, I can’t find no worse (behavior wise) children than white, American kids. I’d be very surprised to hear that these black kids were misbehaving, in fact, I’m willing to wager they were more well-behaved than the white kids. But we’ll see as facts on the situation begin to emerge. And to be brutally honest (since we’re in the BBQ pit), watching white parents & teachers control children in public is sheer entertainment for me. If I ever asked an instructor or parent “Why?” or said “No.” to a command from an adult, I would have been thoroughly beat with a belt and no sweets or television for a week. If I threw a temper-tantrum in public, which I never did, I probably wouldn’t be alive right now. Just my experience. Other people’s mileage may vary. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/346 "2009-07-12T12:15:32Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Black people can’t swim in the same way that white men can’t jump. . You’re not serious are you? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/347 "2009-07-12T14:43:33Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > You’re not serious are you? I read that post as being tongue in cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/348 "2009-07-12T14:49:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, the conversation started with the assertion that BOTH had some explaining to do. my assertion is that only the club does. You insisted that they both did, but you can’t come up with anything the camp needs to explain. I did not insist that they both have some explaining to do. I insisted that both parties are on equal footing–it’s not the case that the club’s actions were racist unless the club proves they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/349 "2009-07-12T14:54:10Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I concur with this. > > And to be brutally honest (since we’re in the BBQ pit), watching white parents & teachers control children in public is sheer entertainment for me. If I ever asked an instructor or parent “Why?” or said “No.” to a command from an adult, I would have been thoroughly beat with a belt and no sweets or television for a week. If I threw a temper-tantrum in public, which I never did, I probably wouldn’t be alive right now. > > Just my experience. Other people’s mileage may vary. > > - Honesty To honest, I think the ideal would be the middle ground between both stereotypical “white” and “black” discipline. Like yours, the kids in my family never dared to ask “Why?” We would never offer our opinions or preferences on _anything_ because the response was always, “Who asked _you_ what you’re going to get?” We were beaten for gagging at the dinner table over bad vegetables (like you can actually control a visceral response). We kind of lived in fear of making mistakes and doing anything besides being an obediant mute. That’s not good. But I agree with you on rowdy kids. A little kid should not say a thing when he’s corrected in public except for an apology. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/350 "2009-07-13T07:40:41Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > You’re not serious are you? I read it as meaning both are untrue. And tongue-in-cheek, like **Freudian Slit** said. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/351 "2009-07-13T14:42:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, the conversation started with the assertion that BOTH had some explaining to do. No, it didn’t. It started with my assertion that statements from both sides should be considered on equal footing. Even if the camp didn’t \*\*need \*\*to explain anything, they did. They offered an explanation of what happened by going to the press and giving a story of how they were kicked out because they were black. That is \*\*their \*\*explanation of what happened. Just because it was given first doesn’t mean it’s anymore truthful. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/352 "2009-07-13T14:50:46Z")
When a bunch black kids get kicked out of a pool, where everyone esle was white, why on earth would they ever get the notion that it might be racially motivated? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/353 "2009-07-13T15:21:51Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > No, it didn’t. It started with my assertion that statements from both sides should be considered on equal footing. > > Even if the camp didn’t \*\*need \*\*to explain anything, they did. They offered an explanation of what happened by going to the press and giving a story of how they were kicked out because they were black. No they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/354 "2009-07-13T15:27:21Z")
**[Ahem](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090713/ap_on_re_us/us_swim_club_minorities)** > [@](#): > > PHILADELPHIA – A private suburban swim club accused of racism after it canceled the memberships of dozens of minority children says it will seek a meeting with the kids’ camps to work out an agreement for them to return. > > Amy Goldman, a member of The Valley Club, said those able to attend a hastily called meeting Sunday afternoon voted unanimously in support of reinstating the memberships of the Creative Steps day camp and two other camps as long as safety issues, times and terms can be agreed upon. See, that wasn’t so hard, was it. Kind of like I said would happen. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/355 "2009-07-13T15:34:10Z")
I’m sure these kids will be very eager to go back. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/356 "2009-07-13T15:39:40Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I’m sure these kids will be very eager to go back. Yeah. Well, seems like they already have a new pool. But if this pans out without further drama, it is a good first step of contrition that the club can use to attract others so that they can show they have sincerely changed their ways. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/357 "2009-07-13T15:47:09Z")
I can see the new banner! “Now Welcoming Blacks” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/358 "2009-07-13T15:47:59Z")
Maybe they can run a promotional tie-in with the local Dennys’. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/359 "2009-07-13T15:52:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe they can run a promotional tie-in with the local Dennys’. You really hate these kids, don’t you… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355/360 "2009-07-13T16:00:20Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > **[Ahem](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090713/ap_on_re_us/us_swim_club_minorities)** > > > [@](#): > > > > PHILADELPHIA – A private suburban swim club accused of racism after it canceled the memberships of dozens of minority children says it will seek a meeting with the kids’ camps to work out an agreement for them to return. > > > > Amy Goldman, a member of The Valley Club, said those able to attend a hastily called meeting Sunday afternoon voted unanimously in support of reinstating the memberships of the Creative Steps day camp and two other camps as long as safety issues, times and terms can be agreed upon. > > See, that wasn’t so hard, was it. Kind of like I said would happen. Cough. > [@not\_alice](#): > > \*\*Sorry, this is going to cost the club big time. \*\* > > I doubt it will get to court, it will be settled without admission of guilt, \*\*but I stand by my prediction that one likely outcome that will minimize the direct costs to the club will be to partner, both in ownership and operation, \*\*with the camp moving forward. > > Risking a jury award would be stupid in this case - the club will surely lose everything. Oh maybe they appeal it out for a while, but then they end up with the same settlement, years of bad publicity, and legal bills for both sides. (Emphasis mine.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philly-swimming-pool-kicks-out-black-kids-doesnt-allow-minorities/502355.md?page=19)