# Phlosphr, you are a fucking idiot (re: home birth) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786 "2011-06-17T02:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/1 "2011-06-17T02:43:34Z")
Yeesh almighty. Relevant thread here: [Birthing at home: Getting over the fear. - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=611902) All you need to know is that Phlosphr (a father-to-be) is all jazzed on home birthing, but for some reason started a thread about getting over the fear of home birthing. One of the topics we discussed in the thread is whether home birthing is better for the baby. Phlosphr keeps insisting that the baby’s safety is the most important thing to him, but he doesn’t answer directly when confronted with evidence to the contrary, such as a recent meta-study showing that home-birthing carries 3 times the risk of death for the baby over hospital birth. Here’s the post that prompted this pit thread: > [@](#): > > > [@JohnT](#): > > > > Again, what does the baby gain from this? Obviously you get to stick it to “the system”, but of what benefit is it to the baby to be born away from medicine, equipment, and licensed professionals who went to school for decades before they got their first real check? > > John, this is a tough question that has - in our case - spiritual connotations that I don’t really like to chat about on open boards, because it leaves the doors open to criticism of spiritual beliefs and that is generally never a good thing. What I will say, is that the mind\body connection between mother and child is very strong, and some believe that the chemical cocktails floating around the mother and baby’s brains at the time of birth are extremely powerful and are the foundation of an inner spiritual connection between mother and baby. Again I hesitate to talk too much about it because many simply call that kind of thing “foo-foo talk”. Yes, I’ve heard that before. > And with the hostility this thread is bringing up I don’t want to open too many more cans of worms! Can of worms officially opened, bitch. You and your bitch-ass grape-eating wife are perfectly fine with risking the life of your unborn child in search of some trippy-ass spiritual experience. Well, that’s one pantload too far. You’ve already failed in your first big decision as a parent. In all likelihood your kid will survive the experience (not that you’ve helped him/her out on that score), but here’s hoping that the other decisions you make as a parent are better than this one. I posted arguments against home birth in that other thread and don’t feel like repeating them here. I just want to pit this motherfucker. ---
**Author:** ![Ludy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Ludy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/2 "2011-06-17T02:51:17Z")
Sorry man, I read that thread and the only person I wanted to pit was you. You may not agree with his choices, but holy hell do you come off as a giant jack-ass. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/3 "2011-06-17T02:54:14Z")
> [@Ludy](#): > > Sorry man, I read that thread and the only person I wanted to pit was you. You may not agree with his choices, but holy hell do you come off as a giant jack-ass. Meh. I guess I’m more bothered than you by people taking risks with their kids’ lives for their own comfort and in search of a mystical spiritual experience. But feel free to let your mileage vary. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/4 "2011-06-17T02:54:27Z")
You’ve got a problem with this but you’d be fine with letting the baby eat unregulated food and be treated with untested medicines? Your hero would be very disappointed with you. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/5 "2011-06-17T02:55:39Z")
> [@Ludy](#): > > Sorry man, I read that thread and the only person I wanted to pit was you. You may not agree with his choices, but holy hell do you come off as a giant jack-ass. Who, Rand Rover? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/6 "2011-06-17T02:57:46Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > You’ve got a problem with this but you’d be fine with letting the baby eat unregulated food and be treated with untested medicines? > > Your hero would be very disappointed with you. You aren’t very smart are you? ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/7 "2011-06-17T03:00:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You aren’t very smart are you? Yes I am. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/8 "2011-06-17T03:05:48Z")
Oh, OK. Well, that settles that. Back to how Phlosphr is a dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/9 "2011-06-17T03:13:28Z")
It’s a reasonable decision, certainly a bit more risky than a hospital birth, but not unreasonably so. Frankly, I’d be more concerned about the mother than the baby. And it does seem that when the shit hits the fan, the OP is not willing to put his child where his mouth is. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/10 "2011-06-17T03:14:04Z")
> [@Ludy](#): > > Sorry man, I read that thread and the only person I wanted to pit was you. You may not agree with his choices, but holy hell do you come off as a giant jack-ass. I haven’t read that thread, so I dunno how he acted in it…but from reading his OP here gotta say I think he’s right on the merits. No way in Hell home birth is in the same safety universe as a hospital. Sometimes emergency situations happen during a birth…things that could kill mother and/or child. A hospital has equipment and resources to deal with those things as safely as possible. If a really bad thing happens during a home birth, somebody might die an otherwise preventable death. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/11 "2011-06-17T03:19:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > And it does seem that when the shit hits the fan, the OP is not willing to put his child where his mouth is. Ew. ---
**Author:** ![Ludy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Ludy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/12 "2011-06-17T03:39:54Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I haven’t read that thread, so I dunno how he acted in it…but from reading his OP here gotta say I think he’s right on the merits. No way in Hell home birth is in the same safety universe as a hospital. Sometimes emergency situations happen during a birth…things that could kill mother and/or child. A hospital has equipment and resources to deal with those things as safely as possible. If a really bad thing happens during a home birth, somebody might die an otherwise preventable death. Well here are a few gems from Rand Rover from that thread. > [@Rand Rover](#): > > If you end up with a dead baby, at least your wife will have her memories of eating grapes and drinking tea to comfort her. > [@Rand Rover](#): > > Meh. There’s one person in this whole fiasco I give a shit about, and it’s not you, wife, or your midwife. Too bad you don’t give as much of a shit about this person as some stranger on the internet, but odds are everything will turn out fine anyway. There are ways to reasonably express your opinion, and there are ways to be a jack ass. He is well into jack ass territory here. Oh and my personal favorite. Apparently pregnant women are just not to be trusted with any decision more important than what to make for dinner. > [@Rand Rover](#): > > Also, pregnant women aren’t in the best frame of mind to be making important decisions. But instead of stepping up and advocating on behalf of your child, you are letting your wife’s hormones affect the kid’s safety. Hopefully you’ll be a better father if the kid survives your first bad decision. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/13 "2011-06-17T03:56:00Z")
Yegods. I didnt read the thread. I think home birthing is pretty dumb, but the hormone argument and telling your wimminfolk what to do cos she’s too addled? Theres room for more than one pitting here Id say. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/14 "2011-06-17T04:04:18Z")
> [@Ludy](#): > > There are ways to reasonably express your opinion, and there are ways to be a jack ass. He is well into jack ass territory here. Well, true. **Rand** is often on the right side of an argument, but he’s got all the charm of a wet cat. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/15 "2011-06-17T04:09:47Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Well, true. **Rand** is often on the right side of an argument, but he’s got all the charm of a wet cat. More like the right wing-nut side. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/16 "2011-06-17T04:13:46Z")
I’m with RR on this, but I would tone down the language. Home birth is an irresponsible choice. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/17 "2011-06-17T04:26:34Z")
This hits close to home for me because someone I give a shit about is planning a home birth, and I actually have to say that, researching it, I feel better than I did before. This is because it looks like the baby rather than the mother is absorbing the lion’s share of the risk with a home birth. While I’ll feel bad for her if something happens to her baby, I have never met said baby and don’t give a good goddamn about it as long as she makes it through safely. So. Whatever she wants. The pregnant women making bad decisions thing was jerkish and stupid, but I think it’s counterbalanced by Phlospher’s adamant insistence that he and his wife “researched thoroughly” when it looks like they’re choosing home birth because of a weird “spiritual connection” thing and then found a bunch of links that confirm what they’ve already decided. Whatever they want will probably be okay, though. The birth will probably be fine, then they can say “I told you so” because they doubled or tripled a fairly small risk and came through okay. So, they get to feel smug and everyone who understands statistics doesn’t have to change their opinion. Everybody wins. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/18 "2011-06-17T04:29:47Z")
I mean, I thought I made it pretty clear my wife is a dumbass and that we were fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants, uneducated derelicts. I also thought I made it clear anyone who has a baby in a hospital or birthing center is fucking insane, and that they are exposing the mother and child to harmful pathogens and uncaring [probably Muslim] doctors. It was the research that told me chances are good my first born will die, well, at least have a higher likelihood of dying than their hospital-born brethren. Yup, I’m going to go smoke another J, read some Oatmeal and hit the sack, cuz if this isn’t the biggest load of bullshit I’ve spilled all day, I’m in the wrong spot. I don’t care if you don’t agree with people who have home births, it’s being a complete Dick about it that throws me. Fuck, I usually agree with you in threads. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/19 "2011-06-17T04:32:04Z")
Wait a minute, what’s wrong with The Oatmeal? Let’s not go dragging a perfectly good comedy blog into this! ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786/20 "2011-06-17T04:36:21Z")
> [@Vihaga](#): > > Whatever they want will probably be okay, though. The birth will probably be fine, then they can say “I told you so” because they doubled or tripled a fairly small risk and came through okay. So, they get to feel smug and everyone who understands statistics doesn’t have to change their opinion. Everybody wins. We are the least smug people on the planet. And I thought that chatting with our OBGYN and interviewing midwives was pretty good research; on the research note, see my thread from [5 months ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-598317.html). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phlosphr-you-are-a-fucking-idiot-re-home-birth/585786.md?page=2)