# Phoenix light rail "Train to Nowhere" opens in 100 days: any Phoenicians excited? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060 "2008-09-17T22:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/41 "2008-09-18T21:41:12Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > How similar to [this route](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=N+19th+Ave+%26+W+Bethany+Home+Rd,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85015,+United+States&daddr=Dobson+%26+Main+St.,+Mesa&hl=en&geocode=&mra=pe&mrcr=0&sll=33.468967,-112.124062&sspn=0.197325,0.350189&ie=UTF8&ll=33.46954,-111.984673&spn=0.197324,0.350189&z=12) is yours? No where near. [This](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=N+19th+Ave+%26+W+Bethany+Home+Rd,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85015,+United+States&daddr=Jefferson+%26+12th+St,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85034,+United+States&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=33.46954,-111.984673&sspn=0.109402,0.193291&ie=UTF8&ll=33.485576,-112.0784&spn=0.109382,0.193291&z=12) is about as near as I can make it without giving out actual directions to my house & job. However, I do not take the highway to or from work because traffic is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/42 "2008-09-18T21:46:26Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > No where near. [This](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=N+19th+Ave+%26+W+Bethany+Home+Rd,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85015,+United+States&daddr=Jefferson+%26+12th+St,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85034,+United+States&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=33.46954,-111.984673&sspn=0.109402,0.193291&ie=UTF8&ll=33.485576,-112.0784&spn=0.109382,0.193291&z=12) is about as near as I can make it without giving out actual directions to my house & job. However, I do not take the highway to or from work because traffic is worse. Cool, you live near Bookman’s. I can and often do lose all concept of time in that place. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/43 "2008-09-18T21:57:28Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Cool, you live near Bookman’s. I can and often do lose all concept of time in that place. 🙂 Oh yes. I am only slightly exaggerating when I said I teared up when I found they were opening that one and I no longer needed to drive all the way to the ass-end of Mesa to get my Bookman’s fix. I love that store and don’t let myself go near as often as I’d like because even trading and cheaper prices doesn’t keep my final tab down. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/44 "2008-09-18T22:01:45Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > No where near. [This](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=N+19th+Ave+%26+W+Bethany+Home+Rd,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85015,+United+States&daddr=Jefferson+%26+12th+St,+Phoenix,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85034,+United+States&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=33.46954,-111.984673&sspn=0.109402,0.193291&ie=UTF8&ll=33.485576,-112.0784&spn=0.109382,0.193291&z=12) is about as near as I can make it without giving out actual directions to my house & job. However, I do not take the highway to or from work because traffic is worse. So you’re going nowhere near the eastern end of the light rail route! ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/45 "2008-09-18T22:09:12Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > So you’re going nowhere near the eastern end of the light rail route! What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? 🙂 My first post was that I was cautiously optimistic, but was reserving judgment until it’s actually up and running to see if it adds (too much) time to my normal commute because I heard it was going to run at like 15-20mph. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/46 "2008-09-18T22:34:16Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? 🙂 Because by telling us the time of your commute without telling us it was only 8 miles, it didn’t make any sense as a comparison with the average speed of a light rail system. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/47 "2008-09-18T23:09:44Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Because by telling us the time of your commute without telling us it was only 8 miles, it didn’t make any sense as a comparison with the average speed of a light rail system. I don’t see how not. My commute time is what it is - whether that was 8 miles or 15 doesn’t matter - it still takes 15-30 mins and I said it was via surface streets which generally have a speed limit of 35-40mph. So yeah it is a valid comparison with the average speed of light rail. Why does it matter how many miles it is? If I can drive 8 miles in 20 mins, but it’ll take 50 on light rail, it’s all down to the speed. Right? The total distance shouldn’t factor. 😕😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/48 "2008-09-18T23:20:02Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > If I can drive 8 miles in 20 mins, but it’ll take 50 on light rail, it’s all down to the speed. Right? The total distance shouldn’t factor. 😕😕😕 _But it won’t take 50 minutes to do 8 miles on light rail_. Not unless the other 12 miles of the route are then completed by teleportation. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/49 "2008-09-19T00:04:17Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > _But it won’t take 50 minutes to do 8 miles on light rail_. Not unless the other 12 miles of the route are then completed by teleportation. If it goes 10mph it would or near that right? I’m just saying if it goes slower than the street speed limit it _has_ to take longer than a car that travels twice as fast, no? Of course, it’s all moot if goes the speed limit, which I’m hoping is the case. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/50 "2008-09-19T05:49:28Z")
For work the lightrail is useless to me. Presently, living way on the east side, I drive about 22 miles on surface streets (It’s about the same speed as the parallel freeway). To use the lightrail, I’d have to drive about 17 miles to its eastern terminus, the ride the rail about six miles, then transfer to a bus for (or walk) the last four mile leg. Driving time, about 35 minutes. I can’t see the 'rail taking less than 90, each way. The bus is more direct, with a mile and a half walk\* at the home end and a bit over a quarter mile at the work end. That trip would take about two and a quarter hours, each way. More useful would be going to a baseball game. Same 17 mile drive from home, but it’s a 12-mile ride to right in front of the ballpark. Saves the hassle of parking downtown (not to mention the ten-bucks). We’ll have to see how long it takes them to disperse an eastbound crowd after the game. \*It would be a quarter mile walk if the connections were ever on time. They never were so it was walk or wait an hour. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/51 "2008-09-19T10:06:59Z")
> [@Mauvaise](#): > > If it goes 10mph it would or near that right? I’m just saying if it goes slower than the street speed limit it _has_ to take longer than a car that travels twice as fast, no? Of course, it’s all moot if goes the speed limit, which I’m hoping is the case. 10mph? Where did that come from? And where has this idea that it goes slower than a street speed limit? The information isn’t [hard to find](http://www.valleymetro.org/images/uploads/lightrail_publications/Fast-Facts.pdf) (pdf): > [@Valley Metro](#): > > METRO travels at posted speed limits on city street, to a maximum of 35 miles an hour. Average projected speed during rush hour is 25mph. If METRO eventually extends onto a freeway corridor, the train will travel at 55 miles per hour, which is its maximum rated capacity. 25mph means 8 miles in 19 minutes, which matches up well with your current drive time. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Punch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Green\_Punch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Punch)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060/52 "2008-09-19T15:53:46Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The bus is more direct, with a mile and a half walk\* at the home end and a bit over a quarter mile at the work end. That trip would take about two and a quarter hours, each way. If they do what Salt Lake did when they started their light rail system, that won’t be true anymore. In order to make it look like more people were riding the light rail, bus routes heading in the same direction got cut over the course of a few months. I used to be able to take the bus straight from my home, north for a few miles to the university. Now I have to catch a bus that at the same place, but it takes me five miles west to the light rail, from there I can take the train north, and then catch another bus for the five miles east to my destination. The half hour bus ride turned into an hour journey by public transportation. And that’s to get to a major destination. They cut all the bus routes that go anywhere near my work. It used to be possible to get there with an hour and a half on the bus. Now it’s two plus hours not including the three miles of walking. I can drive there in less then thirty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phoenix-light-rail-train-to-nowhere-opens-in-100-days-any-phoenicians-excited/464060.md?page=2)