# Phone Scammers (weak) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059 "2016-06-10T22:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/21 "2016-06-16T03:01:53Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Well, maybe. But I’ve been on many, many calls in which it was obvious that the responses to my input were recorded. If software exists that makes the robot non-obvious, why wouldn’t all companies that transact business by phone use that software? What does a recording of your input have to do with anything? **Many companies DO use that software**. My power company (Wisconsin Public Utilities) does; my cable/internet/phone company (Charter) does. I find it maddening, since their software understands almost nothing I say, so I am encouraged to repeat it. Again. No response. Again. Then I realize it may be smart enough to understand a single word, “agent” if said once, followed by a long pause. But “Agent…agent…agent…agent” drives it crazy and it doesn’t understand anything. So I try to drive it crazy as soon as possible to make it give up and get me a human. Non-monopolies – companies that really want your business and don’t want to alienate you – don’t use this kind of software, because people don’t like it. The utility and cable companies aren’t trying to disguise the robot, because you have no choice but to work with them, but the scammers _are_ trying to fool you, because they don’t want you to hang up without getting your money. That’s pretty much the only difference. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/22 "2016-06-16T03:05:49Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I believe some jurisdictions have laws against robot calls, although I’m not clear on this. I thought California was one of those jurisdictions, but, damn, I get a lot of robot calls! Ever hear of California suing Pakistan? And winning? Me neither. That’s why we get so many calls like this. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/23 "2016-06-16T04:56:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve found that saying things about their mothers make them really mad. I once made small talk with one while I pretended to open Event Viewer and all that jazz. I casually asked “So, how’s the weather in Islamabad today?” The irritated growl and “click!” I heard afterward indicated that I made him hit the ceiling. Totally worth ten minutes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/24 "2016-06-16T14:22:19Z")
I have been collecting phrases the robots are trained to recognize. Usually it’s “yes” or “no” or numbers, but some of the scammers throw a little something else in the mix. Apparently some callees suspect the caller is a robot, and may say something like, “Are you a computer?” or “I think you’re a computer!”, so if the robot hears the word “computer,” you are likely to get a response like (and this is an actual transcript of several of my recordings) “Ha! No, I am not a computer; I just use one to help me.” That would be like this kind of dialogue: Callee: Are you a fraud? Caller: No. Callee: OK, then. I guess you’re not a fraud because if you were, you would say so, right? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/25 "2016-06-16T14:54:44Z")
None of the robo-callers that I get are that sophisticated. Either it’s the usual “There is no problem with your account” shit and you can tell it’s recorded because you can hear the recording start to play, or it just delays for a second while Ranjir Rip-off picks up and starts lying to me. The only one I got that attempts to sound real is some voice actor ass-product who starts off in a gruesomely fake-cheery voice "Hi! How you doing?’ and then a pause. Not hard to recognize, and I had a few minutes to waste on pointless pretense, so I responded “Fine - I just got out of prison for murdering telemarketers” and the recording responded “Great!” So I knew it was legit. 😃 I played along for a bit, telling the recording that my name was Zamphir, Master of the Pan Flute, but it turned out that I got the same canned responses no matter what I said so I got bored quickly and hung up. The live person who tells me that he works for Windows and that my computer is infected is more fun to fuck with. I started a thread about it on the Dope once - I had him on the phone for about half an hour and he only wised up when I started reading him the warnings on a Google search about “the Windows phone scam”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/26 "2016-06-16T15:19:00Z")
I have, for the most part, not directly answered my phone in 30 years. Back in the day, I had an answering machine with the volume turned up. Everyone who knew me knew that I never answered the phone, just start leaving a message and if I’m there and able to, I’ll pick up. Or I’ll go through my caller ID (when that became available) every now and then and see that you had called (but be less likely to call back if you did not leave a message, as clearly the call wasn’t important). Now it’s voicemail and caller ID on my cellphone. If you’re in my contacts or if I know you’re calling, like the auto shop last week when I had my brakes done, I’ll answer. But the call from Florida during the same time period? Ignored it. _**The Telephone is a Tool that exists for your convenience. When it stops being convenient, stop using it.**_ ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/27 "2016-06-16T19:53:00Z")
Trinopus wrote: > [@](#): > > I can’t imagine that it’s more expensive than a boiler-room of real people, even if they are sub-minimum-wage foreign labor. Software development isn’t exactly cheap, but it’s not all that pricey. Plus, models exist, so developers could just copy existing scripts. > I believe some jurisdictions have laws against robot calls, although I’m not clear on this. I thought California was one of those jurisdictions, but, damn, I get a lot of robot calls! True, the software might be extremely expensive. Interesting point about some jurisdictions prohibiting robot calls (they’d definitely need the ‘fools people’-level software to get away with it!) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/28 "2016-06-16T20:09:34Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > What does a recording of your input have to do with anything? I think you may have misread my sentence (quoted below); I was referring to the pre-recorded responses to what I said (‘my input’ meaning ‘what I said’), not to my input being recorded: > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Sherrerd: > Well, maybe. But I’ve been on many, many calls in which it was obvious that the responses to my input were recorded. (I should have typed “pre-recorded” instead of “recorded”.) > [@Musicat](#): > > **Many companies DO use that software**. My power company (Wisconsin Public Utilities) does; my cable/internet/phone company (Charter) does. I find it maddening, since their software understands almost nothing I say, so I am encouraged to repeat it. Again. No response. Again. Then I realize it may be smart enough to understand a single word, “agent” if said once, followed by a long pause. But “Agent…agent…agent…agent” drives it crazy and it doesn’t understand anything. So I try to drive it crazy as soon as possible to make it give up and get me a human. > Non-monopolies – companies that really want your business and don’t want to alienate you – don’t use this kind of software, because people don’t like it. > The utility and cable companies aren’t trying to disguise the robot, because you have no choice but to work with them, but the scammers _are_ trying to fool you, because they don’t want you to hang up without getting your money. That’s pretty much the only difference. Right, but the discussion was that the difference you mention is probably an expensive one, or all companies that use automated systems would use the ‘hard to tell from a human’ software instead of the ‘obviously using an automated system’ software. Even utility and cable companies would use the upgraded type if it weren’t expensive. (Their costs are _not_ decreased when customers are disgusted by the clumsiness of the automated system, after all.) > [@Chimera](#): > > I have, for the most part, not directly answered my phone in 30 years. > Back in the day, I had an answering machine with the volume turned up. Everyone who knew me knew that I never answered the phone, just start leaving a message and if I’m there and able to, I’ll pick up. Or I’ll go through my caller ID (when that became available) every now and then and see that you had called (but be less likely to call back if you did not leave a message, as clearly the call wasn’t important). > Now it’s voicemail and caller ID on my cellphone. … That’s me, too. I don’t answer the phone unless I recognize the caller-ID as someone I want to talk to. But I’m posting in this thread because the scammers DO sometimes leave a message–most recently it was “you are about to be arrested, this is the Internal Revenue Services” or such. What really annoyed me was that when I entered the number they said to call (which I did not call, of course) into Google search, I got a bunch of ‘phone number ID’ sites that said flat out it was a scammer’s number, and the scam was to pretend to be the IRS…which indicates this number has been in operation for long enough for a bunch of ID sites to have labeled it. What on earth are the phone companies doing, selling phone service to someone who is THAT established as a scammer?!?!!? (That’s a rhetorical question–I _know_ what the phone companies are doing. They’re making a profit.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/29 "2016-06-16T20:36:15Z")
> [@DoggyDunnit](#): > > I once made small talk with one while I pretended to open Event Viewer and all that jazz. I casually asked “So, how’s the weather in Islamabad today?” > > The irritated growl and “click!” I heard afterward indicated that I made him hit the ceiling. Totally worth ten minutes. 😃 If you want them to hang up real fast, just ask them what OS version you are running. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/30 "2016-06-16T21:16:22Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > . . . if the robot hears the word “computer,” you are likely to get a response like (and this is an actual transcript of several of my recordings) “Ha! No, I am not a computer; I just use one to help me.” . . . I had that experience! I interrupted – it took a while for the recording to stop, and then the voice said, “How can I help you?” I asked “Are you a robot?” There was a pause, and then, almost exactly what you heard, the voice said, “Ha! No, I am not a robot.” Recently, I got a call and asked, “Are you a real person.” She was, and said, “Yes, I am a live agent, but I am electronically limited to a script.” I said “Thank you,” and hung up. > [@Voyager](#): > > If you want them to hang up real fast, just ask them what OS version you are running. I did that once, and the guy just bluffed on. “Your computer has signalled us with a security problem.” ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/31 "2016-06-16T21:39:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I had that experience! I interrupted – it took a while for the recording to stop, and then the voice said, “How can I help you?” I asked “Are you a robot?” There was a pause, and then, almost exactly what you heard, the voice said, “Ha! No, I am not a robot.” > > Recently, I got a call and asked, “Are you a real person.” She was, and said, “Yes, I am a live agent, but I am electronically limited to a script.” I said “Thank you,” and hung up. [Dick Shawn voice as Hip Hitler]“They try, oh, how they try!”[/DSAHH] ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/32 "2016-06-16T23:01:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Recently, I got a call and asked, “Are you a real person.” She was, and said, “Yes, I am a live agent, but I am electronically limited to a script.” Technically, that would have been true, assuming that the system uses a live actress to record all the phrases that will be entered into the system (to be spit out in response to whatever the caller may say). She was a live agent at the time she was recording that limited script full of phrases! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/33 "2016-06-17T02:43:43Z")
Now you’ve got me doubting again. I think this was an actual live person – but they’re getting better and better at programming 'bots, so… Damfino! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/34 "2016-06-18T17:15:23Z")
[Here’s a robocall I recorded yesterday.](http://doorbell.net/junk/20160617breast_cancer.mp3) Note that some words in the recording may offend some extremely sensitive people. The phone number on CID was "920 312-7008 (which might be fake), and the CID display said “CCI”. This is a good example of a dynamic robo program. _100% of this (the caller) is computer generated._ Note how the program handled various situations, and it has several “generic” responses if it doesn’t understand exactly what was said, but thinks there is still a sucker on the line. Also note the rather long pauses between responses. The robo program was parsing the audio and trying to figure out the best response. With today’s technology, that takes a little time, as computers aren’t as fast as human brains just yet. Here’s a transcript of the conversation: > [@](#): > > Hi, is the lady of the house there? > The lady of the house is speaking to you. > > Oh, I’m sorry, what was that? > The lady of the house is speaking to you. Who the fuck are you? > > You know, getting ahold of you is harder than getting my kids to clean their room![sup]4[/sup] Ha, ha, ha! This is Maria[sup]5[/sup] calling on behalf of the United Breast Cancer Foundation.[sup]1[/sup] They’re the ones helping women suffering from breast cancer[sup]6[/sup], you know, by providing financial support in everyday necessities to give them a fighting chance because one out of every eight women will be diagnosed, and I’m sure you guessed, it’s that time of year,[sup]8[/sup] so we just wanted to make sure that if we mailed you an envelope, that the women could count on you for something small, that’s all, OK? > OK! > > Oh, you are so sweet, I think I just might get a cavity! Ha, ha, ha! Now, our basic pledge mails out for thirty dollars and our top pledge is fifty. Any way you can handle the big one, or should we just mail it out for the basic of thirty? > Just mail it out, and fuck you! > > Oh, no problem! I could[sup]3[/sup]…hello? > Hello! > > OK, well, just let me just ask you this, because these women are fighting for their lives, and your help means the world to them[sup]2[/sup]. I can always mail it out for the smallest pledge of fifteen dollars, and that way, they won’t have to lose your support entirely. OK? > Once upon a time, there was a dragon. > > OK, no problem, just please remember to tell three women you know and love to schedule a breast reading this year, and that the United Breast Cancer Foundation is here to help.[sup]7[/sup] Thanks so much for your time and have a great day. Buh-bye. * * * 1 According to [this site](http://www.tampabay.com/americas-worst-charities/charities/united-breast-cancer-foundation), the caller is number 38 on the list of the “world’s worst charities”. Only 6% of the money received goes to the cause they represent; 94% goes to the scammers who make the misleading phone calls. 2 It also means a lot to the telemarketers. How are they going to pay for their yachts and multiple Mercedes’? 3 In my infinite wisdom as a computer program, I just detected an anomaly. Are you mocking me? If so, can I reach into your wallet anyway? 4 This is what’s known as “robo risability.” We robots are a fun bunch, y’bet! 5 My sisters are Carmen and Rachel. They sit in the next cubicle, and their racket is to convince credit card holders to pay for nonexistent services like interest rate reduction. We compete to see who can drain bank accounts the fastest. 6 Helping impoverished women with 6 cents of every dollar donated, a dubious amount of assistance. Helping the rich telemarketers with 94 cents, a much more generous contribution. 7 Sure, we could help. But we won’t. Our motto is, “making it look good is better than actually helping!” 8 Yeah, it’s that time of year, all right. Have pity on us. We need to pay for our luxury beachfront condos in Miami, and every million dollar helps! ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/35 "2016-06-18T17:32:35Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Any way you can handle the **big one** , or should we just mail it out for the basic of thirty? [My bold] Yeah, just break out the KY and bend over. Dontcha just love perverse irony? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/36 "2016-06-18T18:05:29Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Yeah, just break out the KY and bend over. I’ll remember that the next time they call. And they will, because they don’t give up. I wonder what the response will be? Do they have a planned retort to the detection of “KY” and/or “bend over” or will we just get the default error script, like “Have a nice day, buh-bye”? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/37 "2016-06-18T18:50:07Z")
Thanks for that, Musicat. I tend to think that the effort of documenting this stuff does real good–perhaps saving someone who might have been leaning toward believing it was legitimate from taking dollars out of the hands of genuine charities (by giving their money to the scammers, instead). It would be interesting to know what proportion of the world’s adult, employed population is employed in scamming and fraud, in general. Certainly they (in all likelihood) find a way to feel good about what they are doing, whether it’s making the original recording used in calls, servicing the phone system, buying the lists of numbers to call, or any other of the scam-supporting tasks so essential to acquiring cash through deception. Once I happened on a message board run by and for those who made their living as domain squatters–a line of work not entirely unlike phone scamming. (Neither is illegal, apparently, but both are pretty unscrupulous.) It was striking to note the strong strain of “what we do is a SERVICE that ultimately HELPS people” in all the discussions. I suppose the same would be true of message boards run by and for patent trolls, professional astroturfers and product shills, and other unsavory types. ---
**Author:** ![DoggyDunnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DoggyDunnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoggyDunnit)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/38 "2016-06-18T23:41:12Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > …This is a good example of a dynamic robo program… That “woman’s” voice falls squarely in the “aural uncanny valley”. Cree-py! ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/39 "2016-06-19T19:00:31Z")
You hit it right on the head, Musicat. I had that exact same phone call last week. And it was Maria. I was surprised by the opening line (which was exactly the same). I thought something was off, and I finally agreed to give twenty bucks. Then I was transferred to “Sarah,” who wanted me to use a credit card, which I kept refusing to do. And “she” kept going back to her script. I could tell she was a bot. Anyway–I said mail me the stuff, and that was a week ago. Nothing has arrived in the mail. So, either they were really collecting for that company, or were scamming for credit card numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059/40 "2016-06-19T19:54:20Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > I had that exact same phone call last week. And it was Maria. I was surprised by the opening line (which was exactly the same). > > I thought something was off, and I finally agreed to give twenty bucks. Then I was transferred to “Sarah,” who wanted me to use a credit card, which I kept refusing to do. And “she” kept going back to her script. I could tell she was a bot. I suspect “Sarah” was a real person, but only slightly more flexible than “Maria.” After all, if “Maria” was capable of accepting credit card numbers, why hand off to another bot? With the state of computer art as it exists today, a real person is needed in the loop somewhere as closer, but it’s a low-paying, probably overseas job, so don’t expect much beyond reading a script. Remember that the anticipated target is a generous, elderly, retired person, perhaps lonely, certainly clueless, with too much money, a good heart, and not enough skepticism. If the first voice sounds robotic-American, the second voice can be Indian without arousing much suspicion. If you want to challenge the system, try asking for IRS form 990, the mandatory disclosure form for all charities in the USA. Legitimate charities will not hesitate to provide it immediately, by email, fax, or mail. Non-legitimate charities will absolutely refuse, give an excuse, or promise what they will never deliver. Anyone looking at a 990 can see, without being a CPA, how fraudulent the outfit is. And it’s doubtful that many solicitors ever file the 990 anyway. Never give ANYTHING to ANYONE without seeing the form 990 first! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phone-scammers-weak/757059.md?page=3)