# photo radar, how do they know it's me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 16, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228 "2003-06-16T15:39:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/1 "2003-06-16T15:39:09Z")
if i understand photo radar correctly it takes a picture of your license plate when your goes by and is speeding. however, how do they know the owner of the car speeding? it could just as easily be a friend driving my car and speeding. they have a similer setup for stop lights, but the way the camera is setup they can see your face if you run a red light. i don’t see how they could for photo radar. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/2 "2003-06-16T15:41:37Z")
I think (in my horrid experience) the owner of the car is responsible for the fine. I myself having suffered this dread fate at one point. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/3 "2003-06-16T15:55:30Z")
thats terrible. if i ever get a ticket that way i am going raise a big stink. this seems to go agianst innocent until proven guilty. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/4 "2003-06-16T16:04:46Z")
The owner of a car is civilly responsible for the car and, as long as it is a civil matter and not a criminal matter, he is responsible. Just like if you lend your car and your friend does damage with it and cannot pay for it: you are on the hook. As far as criminal penalties go, I believe the owner can claim he did not know who was driving that day and it may be a successful defence the first time but the court can impose the obligation of maintaining a log in the future showing who is in possesion of the vehicle. . . so it is not a defense you want to bring up lightly. A judge is not going to have much sympathy if you say you have no idea who was driving your car as you are civilly responsible for it at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/5 "2003-06-16T16:07:13Z")
The only way that you may be able to get out of the ticket is if you can prove that the car was in the shop or valet parked (ie. somebody had access, even if they didn’t have your permission) at the time the ticket was issued. Of course, you have a different set of problems then. Other than that, you will be responsible for the fine, and you can get your friend to pay you back. ---
**Author:** ![MikeRochenelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@MikeRochenelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeRochenelle)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/6 "2003-06-16T16:12:59Z")
Here in my town in Colorado, when you get a photo radar ticket, there’s a little box that you can check that says, “This isn’t me in the picture, it’s \_\_\_\_\_\_.” It doesn’t say so explicitly, but I’ve always imagined that if you fill in the box and you aren’t the person in the picture, they throw away the ticket. Of course, photo radar tickets around here are strictly monentary things - no points and they don’t go on your driving record. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/7 "2003-06-16T16:48:53Z")
I got a photo radar ticket for a location where I knew I (and my car) hadn’t been. I called the phone number on the ticket and told them I wasn’t anywhere near downtown on that day. Either they gave me a one time courtesy write-off or they decided the license plate number wasn’t quite as clear in the photo as they first thought. At any rate (no pun intended), I got a follow-up letter saying it was dropped. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/8 "2003-06-17T02:45:14Z")
it appears since i am going to be held accountable for others actions (ether that or forced to nark on my friends) if someone speeds in my car. i am going to look in to grey market utlities. i remember hearing about something that was supposed to block the license plate from the cameras but be easily viewable to human eyes. i think it obscured the plate at angle the camera takes the picture or something i can’t remember for sure how it works. it just bugs me, if a real cop did the catching i would not get ticket they would, but becouse some dumb machine’s inability do it properly, no point in rantu\ing about here. thanks for the answers and responses guys:) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/9 "2003-06-17T03:07:44Z")
There might be ways around it but you’d have to check you local and state laws. > [@](#): > > Arizona law requires that all complaints, including traffic tickets, be personally served. Your appellate court has thrown out cases where a photo radar ticket was mailed. Your courts have no power to assess fines or sanctions unless the complaint was served or service was waived. In other words, a ticket is just like a lawsuit. It has to be served the same as if it were a personal injury suit, breach of contract suit, or any other lawsuit. > > So, looking again at that ticket that came in the mail, if the driver signs and returns it, the driver is waiving the legal requirement that the city serve the complaint personally. > > _\_ > > Cases addressing the legality of photo radar are limited. Issues of service of process or verification of the complaint are the focus of Arizona challenges. Arizona courts have thrown out cases where the signature of the complainant was computer-generated or where it was clear that the facts hadn’t been reviewed before the complaint was filed. > > SOURCE: [http://phoenix.about.com/library/weekly/uc011403a.htm](http://phoenix.about.com/library/weekly/uc011403a.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/10 "2003-06-17T03:19:39Z")
Well, my most recent bill for speeding gives a number of options. One is to pay the fine and the second says: > [@](#): > > You should within 14 days of receipt of this notice complete the driver declaration section overleaf and return it to the Traffic Camera Office, advising who was the driver or person in charge of the vehicle at the time. The declaration basically says “I was not the driver at the time, Joe Bloggs was the driver and here are his details (including licence number and address) so you can nab him.” ---
**Author:** ![something\_clever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@something\_clever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/something_clever)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/11 "2003-06-17T03:30:48Z")
[http://www.phantomplate.com](http://www.phantomplate.com) 100% legal ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/12 "2003-06-17T03:35:42Z")
thanks Whack-a-mole. i’ll look into indiana and michigan law as i live on border. perhaps these speeding tickets in the mail are only valid becouse people think they are valid. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/13 "2003-06-17T03:39:46Z")
thanks for the additional response and thanks for the link something clever. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/14 "2003-06-17T03:47:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by something clever \* > \*\*[http://www.phantomplate.com](http://www.phantomplate.com) > > 100% legal \*\* I have to wonder about its effectiveness given the heavily, and obviously edited “after” photo on [this page.](http://www.phantomplate.com/index3.htm) :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Toledo police Lt. Louis Borucki, whose city started using red-light cameras a year ago, says he has heard of the devices but has not seen them used on any cars in his city. He says he is skeptical of the claims made by the companies. > > “Anything an officer can see, the camera can see,” Borucki says, adding that **motorist with an obstructed license plate would be cited for that offense**. Bret Crow, a spokesman for Ohio Attorney General Betty D. Montgomery, says no one has sought an opinion from the state on the legality of motorists using red-light-camera-foiling devices. From [here.](http://www.sunnews.com/news/2002/part1/0214/CAMERA.htm) ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photo-radar-how-do-they-know-its-me/182228/15 "2003-06-17T03:59:31Z")
Here in Calgary, you still get the ticket (as the registered owner of the car) but they don’t put any demerits on your licence (as they would if you were physically pulled over)