# photographs of Japanese people: what 's the "peace sign" about? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 10, 2001, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600 "2001-11-10T07:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/21 "2001-11-11T03:48:41Z")
It is an homage to Richard M. Nixon, who loved to flash the V ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/22 "2001-11-11T22:59:14Z")
Here are some examples of [Thai photo hand signals](http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/sawsuaa/lst?&.dir=/Thai+Hand+Signals&.src=ph&.view=t&.last=1). [sub]I am still having a lot of trouble with my photo software, so this is a small sample, I may add more later if I can get the kinks worked out.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![mighty\_maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@mighty\_maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mighty_maxx)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/23 "2001-11-12T01:42:12Z")
Here is a couple examples aswell. She says the “V” stands for victory, and the “L” is to look like a supermodel. 🙂 [The “V”](http://www.venus.net/~jblazier/cheese004.jpg) [The “L”](http://www.venus.net/~jblazier/cutie004.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/24 "2001-11-12T02:24:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mighty\_maxx \* > \*\*Here is a couple examples aswell. She says the “V” stands for victory, and the “L” is to look like a supermodel. 🙂 > [The “V”](http://www.venus.net/~jblazier/cheese004.jpg) > [The “L”](http://www.venus.net/~jblazier/cutie004.jpg) \*\* She definitely looks more like a supermodel in the second one… until the picture gets down to the Winnie-the-Pooh slippers! ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/25 "2001-11-12T02:24:23Z")
Is it possible that the “L” came from mothers behind the camera trying to signal to their offspring to smile? It looks like a sign for “smile” to me! I can imagine mothers frantically gesturing, and kids copying her instead of just smiling 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ignatzmouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b2d939/32.png) [@ignatzmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ignatzmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/26 "2001-11-12T05:23:07Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem with this is that saying “cheese” does serve a purpose – your mouth approximates a smile when you say it, making you more photogenic (hopefully). But the “V” sign seems to be purpose- and meaningless. I suspect that there is a more important purpose to the “peesu” sign than to “cheese”. The use of the peace sign changes the nature of pictures radically. It makes the complicity of the subject overt and make the subject seem less vain. In addition, the use of the sign imparts to the picture a significance that distingushes it from other modes of photography. Upon reflection, I think I once asked a Japanese 30 somethinger whether or not he used the sign as a child, and he said that it came into fashion in the late seventies. Although it sounded like a joke, DPwhite’s answer may have some truth in it, as it would likely take a number of years for the sign to spread. I have noticed, however, that sixty and seventy-year-olds use it freely. especially when drunk. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/27 "2001-11-12T08:53:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ignatzmouse \* > I have noticed, however, that sixty and seventy-year-olds use it freely. especially when drunk. \*\* And that is because that gesture is old and is a gesture of accomplishment, more “I made it!” or “I did it!” than “victory”: From Anime info part 2: learning Japanese with comics: > [@](#): > > V (VEE) > n. - Not so much a word (though it can be said as such) as it is a gesture, the “V” is symbolic of “victory” or as a way of saying “I did it!” or “Here I am!”. It looks very similar to the “peace” sign that hippies in American culture did in the 1970’s, and can carry that context in some situations, but it mostly has the “victory” meaning. Its origins may be steeped in the Japanese observation of American soldiers after World War II using the “V for victory” sign as they came home in the aftermath of the war. It has since been integrated into the Japanese culture. The V can be employed as a sign of victory, but it is also commonly used by the Japanese (and anime characters) when posing for photographs. > ex. - V for Victory! > other forms: victory ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Echo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Second\_Echo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Echo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/28 "2001-11-12T11:02:31Z")
Hmmm. Really interesting hypotheses. So it sounds like the consensus is it came into the fashion sometime in the late 70’s or very early 80’s…but whether or not there’s a deeper meaning is still up in the air. Or perhaps there was more of a meaning at the time it was strated, but is now repeated almost automatically because, well, that’s how you do it! Thanks to everyone for their opinions on the matter. Ans thanks especially for those Thai pictures of the “L” sign. Intriguing. I’d still like to hear what **Sublight** comes up with tomorrow though… ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600/29 "2001-11-12T11:10:32Z")
They do it to some extent here in Hawaii. I have done it a few times. And all the times that I’ve known it done it was just something to do with your hands so they don’t just hang limply at your side. Perhaps it did have a symbollic meaning when it first came on but I think that meaning has largely been drowned out by it becoming a pop signature. I especially think so when I’m walking around Waikiki and see a group of 5 young Japanese women posing for a photo and the smiles go with the sign. Just going into the ‘picture pose.’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photographs-of-japanese-people-what-s-the-peace-sign-about/92600.md?page=1)