# Photos with people holding up two fingers behind head **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820 "2009-09-12T14:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/21 "2009-09-13T09:49:09Z")
Nobody is arguing that it’s not mockery, but what are it’s origins? You can do all sorts of things behind peoples heads, why the “bunny ears”? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/22 "2009-09-13T10:28:51Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t understand why you’d say this. We have a longstanding cultural tradition of making a specific gesture when being photographed. Other cultures do not do this. In Spanish the version with two fingers making a V is “orejas de burro,” donkey ears. The version with the index and little finger is horns, and you reaaaaaally don’t want to get caught doing it as it can lead to broken noses (it’s equivalent to calling the person either a cornudo, cuckolded, or a cabrón, a man who pimps his own wife). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/23 "2009-09-13T14:17:02Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Spanish the version with two fingers making a V is “orejas de burro,” donkey ears. The version with the index and little finger is horns, and you reaaaaaally don’t want to get caught doing it as it can lead to broken noses (it’s equivalent to calling the person either a cornudo, cuckolded, or a cabrón, a man who pimps his own wife). Yes. In Mexico, just called “cuernos” (horns), but somehow constitutes an accusation of cuckoldry. Some Mexican friends were very surprised that this was _not_ the tradition in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/24 "2009-09-13T19:43:25Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Thanks for the back-up, cochrane. 🙂 > > I’ve thought of another possible reason for the bunny-ears though - most, if not all of the time, the person it is being done to will be chatting to someone else, or “rabbiting”, so if you can find the origins of that expression being used for excessive chatter, you might have your first culprits. “Rabbiting,” so I have always heard, is Cockney rhyming slang. “Rabbit and pork”: talk. I doubt that it has anything to do with the gesture in question. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/25 "2009-09-13T19:51:06Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Okay, the Japanese. But it’s not universal. > > And why only rabbit ears? Why not miming a gun to the temples, or moose antlers, or something else? It’s not the burning question of the ages, but I just don’t think “we do it ’cause it’s funny” is a satisfying explanation. People do make [gun signs](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/Images/raekwon-only-built-4-cuban-linx.jpg) at cameras. But it’s not a very family-friendly gesture. How would you make moose antlers? People do bunny ears because it’s easy and mildly funny, that’s it really. I think you’re thinking about this a bit too hard. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/26 "2009-09-13T20:36:41Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > How would you make moose antlers? Easy: thumbs to temples, fingers spread pointing upwards. Can be done to self, or to another from behind. (The junior high we went to was _creative_.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/27 "2009-09-13T21:07:02Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > People do make [gun signs](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/Images/raekwon-only-built-4-cuban-linx.jpg) at cameras. But it’s not a very family-friendly gesture. How would you make moose antlers? People do bunny ears because it’s easy and mildly funny, that’s it really. > > I think you’re thinking about this a bit too hard. 🙂 I still think it would be fun to discover the history of it, just like we would pieces of language. You know, find the earliest instance. See if you can find someone historically famous who had it done to them and got mad. “This abysmal practice of, while sitting for a photograph, facetiously accusing one’s acquaintance of being of leporidan decent.” Or something like that! ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/28 "2009-09-13T21:08:21Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > I think you’re thinking about this a bit too hard. 🙂 I think your brushing off a potentially interesting answer. Where does this custom come from? When did it start? Noone has addressed this. Just saying, “It’s supposed to be funny, that’s all” isn’t answering the question at all. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/29 "2009-09-13T23:19:23Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t understand why you’d say this. We have a longstanding cultural tradition of making a specific gesture when being photographed. Other cultures do not do this. Our behavior is unusual and, it would seem, unmotivated, and yet it is persistent across several generations. In Germany, it has been common for at least 30 years. It’s usually children who do that, because it is regarded as childish. The fingers represent donkey ears, not rabbit ears, and are thus a childish insult that the other person is dumb. A rabbit isn’t an insult. I can’t think of other gestures you can do easily and unnoticed - a gun to the head is dangerous and bad, not mocking (guns are bad in our culture). And antlers aren’t insulting. As for devil horns/ cuckold: While we do have an older figure of speech that a husband who was cheated has been “horned”, it’s not a widespread finger gesture, and it wouldn’t be used by kids against each other, because it wouldn’t fit. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f08c70/32.png) [@Uncle\_Brother\_Walker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Brother_Walker)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/30 "2009-09-13T23:43:03Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > … How would you make moose antlers? Put your elbows together. This places your forearms parallel to each other. Keeping your hands together at the bottom of the thumbs, fan out your fingers. MOOSE HORNS! For added reality, you can bend your fingers a bit. We were creative, too. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/31 "2009-09-13T23:58:14Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > The Japanese habit of flashing the peace sign in photographs is well known, and I’d agree that it has little to do with the “bunny ears” gesture in most cases. The wiki article on the sign gives a (possibly spurious) origin for the Japanese custom: Nononono. Nonono. It’s just a peace sign. Why are you overcomplicating things? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/32 "2009-09-14T00:58:44Z")
Whence the accusations of overcomplication? As far as I can tell, the only “complication” is suggesting “this gesture has an origin.” Otherwise, we’re just collecting data. Where do the complications arise? It seems like people are suggesting that the subject matter is unworthy of intellectual investigation, which is strange to me. So at the risk of superhyperovercomplicating: Synchronic interpretations of the mockery gesture so far are: 1. Rabbit ears 2. Donkey ears (Germany and Spain) 3. Devil horns Context: Usually done by children; usually (but not always) done for photos. it’s identical in form to the peace sign, but that origin appears to be separate and later. The Japanese custom seems to have a more recent origin, derived from Western culture. #3 is interesting because, as **Nava** mentioned, the “horns” (_cuernos_)gesture in Mediterranean countries and in their sphere of influence is strongly (and anciently) associated with cuckoldry. There’s quite a lot of scholarship on that: the competing theories are that it’s associated with the former practice grafting spurs onto capons, or else the symbolic association with billy goats. Nevertheless, that is one tie-in to support the theory mentioned by **Zsofia** , that the gesture’s origin comes from the common “horns” gesture. We know that the horns = cuckoldry was formerly well known in the English-speaking world (used extensively in Shakespeare and Marlowe, f’r instance), so we know that there’s a possibility that English-speakers had a gesture for it. Also, the two are connected in their meaning of mockery: strong and serious mockery for the cuckoldry, weak and teasing mockery for the bunny ears. My slang dictionary suggests that “to rabbit” does derive from rhyming slang rabbit-and-pork = talk, and dates to the 1940s; the gesture predates that, so though it can’t be the origin of the gesture it could be the origin of the gesture as “rabbit ears.” No conclusions yet, only hypotheses. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/33 "2009-09-14T01:04:06Z")
I will add one more thought, and it’s almost certainly unrelated: In a number of old WB cartoons, after one of the characters did something really stupid, they would look at the camera, and for a brief moment have donkey ears (as if to say, “I just made an ass of myself”). ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/34 "2009-09-18T17:29:31Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Synchronic interpretations of the mockery gesture so far are: > > 1. Rabbit ears Could you please explain to me why rabbit ears would be an insult, though? Or why children thought them funny? > [@](#): > > 1. Devil horns > > Context: Usually done by children; usually (but not always) done for photos. > > #3 is interesting because, as **Nava** mentioned, the “horns” (_cuernos_)gesture in Mediterranean countries and in their sphere of influence is strongly (and anciently) associated with cuckoldry. There’s quite a lot of scholarship on that: the competing theories are that it’s associated with the former practice grafting spurs onto capons, or else the symbolic association with billy goats. Nevertheless, that is one tie-in to support the theory mentioned by **Zsofia** , that the gesture’s origin comes from the common “horns” gesture. We know that the horns = cuckoldry was formerly well known in the English-speaking world (used extensively in Shakespeare and Marlowe, f’r instance), so we know that there’s a possibility that English-speakers had a gesture for it. Also, the two are connected in their meaning of mockery: strong and serious mockery for the cuckoldry, weak and teasing mockery for the bunny ears. But when kids do this, do they know that they are calling each other cuckolded? When at the age of around 10 years I called my fellow class-mates names like Son of a bitch (Hurensohn), I knew what it meant (though I didn’t know why it should be offensive compared to other insults - I could only come up with defending the mother, not your own honour), or Masturbator (Wichser), I knew it was an insult (although I only found out much later that people used to believe that masturbating shrank your brain, turning you into an idiot). ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/35 "2009-09-18T17:42:15Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Heh, I always thought it was devil’s horns not bunny ears. Thanks so much. I was going crazy in this thread. I never heard of this “bunny ears” business. Everyone knows it is devil’s horns! Any chance you’re from NJ? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/36 "2009-09-18T20:58:53Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Synchronic interpretations of the mockery gesture so far are: > > 1. Rabbit ears > 2. Donkey ears (Germany and Spain) > 3. Devil horns In Spain 2 and 3 are different gestures. And yes, when a 10yo Spaniard does #3 to a classmate, he knows he’s calling the classmate a _cabrón_; he may not know the whole definition (a man who pimps his own women, usually his wife), but he knows it’s sexual, nasty and a reason for blows. #2 is cause for mild irritation at most. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/37 "2009-09-18T21:00:48Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Could you please explain to me why rabbit ears would be an insult, though? Or why children thought them funny? Of the three possible interpretations of the gesture (ass, devil, rabbit), “ass” seems the mostly likely to be at the root of it. “Devil horns” is a different gesture, well known, and it seems likely that the regions that know the gesture as “devil horns” borrowed the name from the better-known _cuernos_ (which has equivalents in Italian, Portuguese, French, etc.). I’d suggest “ass” is older because (1) we have a cross-linguistic evidence that the gesture is interpreted as an ass, whereas “rabbit” seems limited to English; (2) there is a venerable tradition of schoolyard mockery where someone is called an “ass.” (3) The story of King Midas having ass’s ears was once fairly well known. I might guess that “rabbit ears” came into vogue in the English-speaking world after the advent of Playboy magazine, but without dates it’s a wild guess. It could also be because the gesture means “rabbit” in the gesture-song “Little Bunny Foo-Foo.” Who knows. > [@constanze](#): > > But when kids do this, do they know that they are calling each other cuckolded?.. No. I know of no evidence that children themselves make the connection, and we haven’t even established that there is a connection, we’ve only suggested it. The more I think about it, the more I think that it’s unlikely. I think you and **Nava** and **Earl Snake-Hips Tucker** are right, that it’s a representation of “you’re a [silly / stubborn / stupid / inferior] ass, as symbolized by these ears.” If only I could find evidence! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820/38 "2009-09-18T21:24:02Z")
Just to muddy the waters: > [@](#): > > Foremost among the cuckold animals, of course, is the ass, the traditional beast of burden. Accutus, in _Every Woman in Her Humour_ (1607), literalizes the correspondence between the ass’s ears and the cuckold’s horns when he taunts “thou hast long ears, and thinkest them horns, thy conceits cuckolds thee” (V.i. 197-98). Douglas Bruster, “The Horn of Plenty: Cuckoldry and Capital in the Drama of the Age of Shakespeare,” _Studies in English Literature 1500–1900_ 32 (Spring, 1990), 201. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/photos-with-people-holding-up-two-fingers-behind-head/509820.md?page=1)