# Phrase Origin: Other than that Mrs Lincoln.. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617 "2005-02-17T23:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/21 "2018-10-06T21:30:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The only real candidate is his routine, Abe Lincoln vs. Madison Avenue, from his first album. It purports to be a conversation between Lincoln and his press agent just before Gettysburg. I don’t have the album, but I heard it recently and the humor came from the press agent trying to give his speech more pop and oomph. There’s probably a reference at the end to the play, but the line “Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?” would make absolutely no sense in context! You’re correct. The final line was “Tell you what, Abe. Why don’t you take in a play?” Newhart was supposedly talking to Lincoln in the routine, not Mrs. Lincoln. I’m pretty sure I heard the “Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln . . .” before I got the album. My mother told it to me, which would indicate it was far older than Newhart. It’s likely it circulated for years before anyone wrote it down. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/22 "2018-10-06T21:36:43Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Since no publication date is given on Amazon, and the line/cartoon in question isn’t shown, how did you determine this was the “original” source? Do you have a copy of the book with the cartoon? “The Wonderful World of J. Wesley Smith,” by Burr Shafer, was copyrighted December 1960, but the application states that some of the cartoons were previously published in Shafer’s other books. More evidence would be needed to confirm that, even if such a cartoon appears in this book, that this precedes the 1958 cite. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/23 "2018-10-06T21:37:18Z")
The joke is certainly reminiscent of Burr Shafer’s style (single panel cartoon, a character saying something utterly clueless about an important historical event). Shafer’s career lasted from the 1930s through the 1950s (Harry Truman was a fan, reportedly saying “I’m very proud that I’m smart enough to get the point.”) I have read most of the collections of his J. Wesley Smith cartoons. That said, I don’t recall him making that particular joke. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/24 "2018-10-06T21:45:56Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Since no publication date is given on Amazon, and the line/cartoon in question isn’t shown, how did you determine this was the “original” source? Do you have a copy of the book with the cartoon? Not to mention the book was published by [Scholastic](http://www.scholastic.com/aboutscholastic/history.htm), a company that was founded specifically for creating material for children and teenagers. Not to mention that two of the reviewer comments mentioned they had first read the book when they were kids. At the very least it seems like a rather _sophisticated_ joke to tell kids.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/25 "2018-10-06T21:57:02Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > At the very least it seems like a rather _sophisticated_ joke to tell kids.:dubious: Kids love gallows humor. Not to mention readers of _The New Yorker_, where most of the cartoons were originally published. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/26 "2018-10-06T22:19:45Z")
Scholastic also loves material with cross-curriculum tie-ins. Kids learn in history class that Lincoln was assassinated at a play. “Lincoln” is an uncommon-enough name that “Mrs. Lincoln” must surely be the President’s wife. Presto, kids know everything they need to get the joke. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/27 "2018-10-06T22:38:42Z")
Everyone knows the joke, but no one knows where they first heard it. Perhaps an old vaudeville act? I can easily envision it in Henny Youngman’s or Sid Caesar’s voice. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/28 "2018-10-07T02:00:55Z")
Reminds me of Gilbert Gottfried’s joke: I was talking to Jaqueline Kennedy and I asked her, “Do you remember where you were…” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/29 "2018-10-07T02:30:05Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The final line of the routine was the press agent, after hearing Lincoln was feeling a bit stressed, saying, “Tell you what, Abe. Why don’t you take in a play?” But that is silly, as Lincoln was assassinated nearly 2 years after the battle, and a year and a half after he gave the Gettysburg Address. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/30 "2018-10-07T02:49:57Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > But that is silly, as Lincoln was assassinated nearly 2 years after the battle, and a year and a half after he gave the Gettysburg Address. Anachronistic jokes do not have to correspond to chronology. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/31 "2018-10-07T04:24:38Z")
Google dating is sometimes unreliable, but: [possible 1956 cite](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vHsiAQAAMAAJ&q=%22mrs+lincoln%22+%22did+you+like+the+play%22&dq=%22mrs+lincoln%22+%22did+you+like+the+play%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1m7TYuvPdAhUkCMAKHVmtAgkQ6AEILzAC) [(appears to be accurate date)](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vHsiAQAAMAAJ&dq=%22mrs+lincoln%22+%22did+you+like+the+play%22&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=1956) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/32 "2018-10-07T05:45:32Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > Reminds me of Gilbert Gottfried’s joke: I was talking to Jaqueline Kennedy and I asked her, “Do you remember where you were…” Another Gottfried: Manson walked into the room for his parole hearing and said, “Is it hot in here or am I crazy?” ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/33 "2018-10-08T14:21:24Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Not to mention the book was published by [Scholastic](http://www.scholastic.com/aboutscholastic/history.htm), a company that was founded specifically for creating material for children and teenagers. Not to mention that two of the reviewer comments mentioned they had first read the book when they were kids. > > At the very least it seems like a rather _sophisticated_ joke to tell kids.:dubious: In grade school I got a copy of “Through History with J. Wesley Smith” from Scholastic (I _think_ we got credits towards purchases based on how much Christmas candy we sold for a fundraiser). One of the cartoons showed Smith and a companion walking out of a theater showing _Pirates of Penzance_ (or possible _HMS Pinafore_) and saying, “It’s an insult to Her Majesty’s navy. No on will stand for it.” So I don’t think Scholastic was filtering the cartoons for the target age group. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/34 "2018-10-08T14:55:27Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > In grade school I got a copy of “Through History with J. Wesley Smith” from Scholastic (I _think_ we got credits towards purchases based on how much Christmas candy we sold for a fundraiser). One of the cartoons showed Smith and a companion walking out of a theater showing _Pirates of Penzance_ (or possible _HMS Pinafore_) and saying, “It’s an insult to Her Majesty’s navy. No on will stand for it.” So I don’t think Scholastic was filtering the cartoons for the target age group. Do you think they filtered for taste? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/35 "2018-10-08T15:21:21Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > But that is silly, as Lincoln was assassinated nearly 2 years after the battle, and a year and a half after he gave the Gettysburg Address. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Anachronistic jokes do not have to correspond to chronology. yeah, and he was busy Presidenting, and in any case, “My American Cousin” was the only play that really caught his fancy. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617/36 "2018-10-08T16:17:55Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > But that is silly, as Lincoln was assassinated nearly 2 years after the battle, and a year and a half after he gave the Gettysburg Address. And yet you accept the fact that Newhart is talking to Lincoln on a telephone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrase-origin-other-than-that-mrs-lincoln/290617.md?page=1)