# Phrases that don't really make sense **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 16, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856 "2015-04-16T19:18:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/61 "2015-04-17T20:39:43Z")
Concerning “the exception that proves the rule”, I think it’s telling that the [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule#Jocular_nonsense) on the expression has a section for “jocular nonsense” and another one for “serious nonsense”. Another one that should probably just be nuked from orbit, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/62 "2015-04-17T21:50:24Z")
“You’re grounded for life!” ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/63 "2015-04-17T22:21:47Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Concerning “the exception that proves the rule”, I think it’s telling that the [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_that_proves_the_rule#Jocular_nonsense) on the expression has a section for “jocular nonsense” and another one for “serious nonsense”. Those two phrases-“jocular nonsense” and “serious nonsense”-were lifted directly from Fowler’s “Modern English Usage.” ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/64 "2015-04-17T22:40:51Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Those two phrases-“jocular nonsense” and “serious nonsense”-were lifted directly from Fowler’s “Modern English Usage.” Excellent! This clearly means that Fowler backs me up on the nuking from orbit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Themenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/65 "2015-04-18T06:58:33Z")
> [@Why\_Child](#): > > “Running back and forth.” > > How can you go (or come) back, if you have yet to go forth? Shouldn’t it be “running forth and back”? “Forth” here is an archaic usage for “forwards” - so the phrase means “running backwards and forwards” - my cite is “obvious innit” ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/66 "2015-04-18T16:06:58Z")
“If you break a leg, don’t come running to me!” But this is usually said ironically. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/67 "2015-04-18T16:12:59Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > It’s possible to _make_ **“The exception that proves the rule.”** make sense, but it gets used to mean “Well, my rule is crap and has been disproven, but I’m going to pretend it still works by assuming that the disproof makes it stronger.” According to Stephen Gould, “proves” in this case is supposed to mean “tests” rather than “confirms”; using the same etymology as “proving grounds”. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/68 "2015-04-18T17:15:43Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > According to Stephen Gould, “proves” in this case is supposed to mean “tests” rather than “confirms”; using the same etymology as “proving grounds”. “The exception proves the rule” means that the existence of an exception to a rule proves the existence of the rule. The Wikipedia article cited by **Martian Bigfoot** explains this with an example: > [@](#): > > Special leave is given for men to be out of barracks tonight till 11.00 p.m.; “The exception proves the rule” means that this special leave implies a rule requiring men, except when an exception is made, to be in earlier. The value of this in interpreting statutes is plain. This example (like most of the article) was lifted directly from Fowler’s “Modern English Usage.” The Wikipedia article also gives the “test” explanation, and uses the book “The Etymologicon” by Mark Forsyth as a reference. I trust Fowler on this one, for a couple of reasons. Fowler links the origin of the phrase back to an earlier usage. Also, Fowler’s explanation seems more logical to me-I can see why people would use a aphorism to remember the idea behind it-while the meaning behind the “test” explanation is so obvious it’s almost a truism. Why would people use an aphorism whose meaning is so much less obvious than the idea it’s supposed to express? ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/69 "2015-04-18T17:40:47Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > But people have hunted (and eaten) bear. The saying would make LESS sense if it went, “Sometimes you eat the deer… And sometimes the deer eats you!” I’m in the north of Italy, and just over the border in Slovenia you can most definitely eat bear. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/70 "2015-04-18T18:14:51Z")
“The exception proves the rule,” is a fragment. The whole quote (from Cicero) is “The exception proves that the rule is in force on all other occasions.” What it means is that if a written rule or law contains an explicit exception, you can assume there are no other exceptions, or they would be explicit as well. If a sign says “Two hour parking except on Sundays and holidays,” and you get a ticket for parking overnight on a Saturday, don’t try arguing that there’s an exception for Saturdays, because the two adjoining streets have them. The sign is explicit that the exceptions are Sundays and holidays _only_. If there were no stated exceptions at all, you might be able to argue implicit exceptions, but the existence of explicit ones rules out other, implicit ones. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/71 "2015-04-18T18:17:42Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > I’m in the north of Italy, and just over the border in Slovenia you can most definitely eat bear. In _Little House in the Big Woods_, Laura Ingalls says she hopes he father brings home a bear when he goes hunting, because she loves bear meat. Totally not kosher. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/72 "2015-04-18T19:42:16Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > That’s one. My old man used to say “ass over tea cups” and it doesn’t make any sense either. I wonder if it’s referring to some kind of Jack & Jill type story. They’re both sanitised versions of ‘arse over tit’ ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856/73 "2015-04-20T22:11:51Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > “The exception proves the rule,” is a fragment. The whole quote (from Cicero) is “The exception proves that the rule is in force on all other occasions.” What it means is that if a written rule or law contains an explicit exception, you can assume there are no other exceptions, or they would be explicit as well. If a sign says “Two hour parking except on Sundays and holidays,” and you get a ticket for parking overnight on a Saturday, don’t try arguing that there’s an exception for Saturdays, because the two adjoining streets have them. The sign is explicit that the exceptions are Sundays and holidays _only_. If there were no stated exceptions at all, you might be able to argue implicit exceptions, but the existence of explicit ones rules out other, implicit ones. Mercy buckets! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrases-that-dont-really-make-sense/717856.md?page=3)