# Phrogging - is this for real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 15, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706 "2007-08-15T19:13:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/41 "2007-08-16T18:00:30Z")
[QUOTE=Dorian Gray] Can’t say i’ve ever heard of phrogging but i am somewhat familiar with an activity that is real called [urban exploration](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_exploration) . Urban Explorers most likely wouldn’t in any way want to be associated with “phroggers” (if they exist) but there is a large network of people that do “gain access” to off limits places for the sake of exploring and taking pictures. One place that might be somewhat relevant to this thread is Steve Jobs’ old house in Woodside, CA. His house has been abandoned for a while but a few people have found a way in and taken some really cool pictures. They didn’t get in to live his life for a few days, but you can definitely get a unique perspective on his lifestyle by having gone in or by seeing some of the pictures. [/QUOTE] Again, I have no trouble believing that urban exploration is done, but again the huge difference is that phrogging is done while people are living in the house. Damn, I was really hoping that someone here would know something about this, recognize the girls, or have access to some investigative tool other than the internet. All the net searching done so far is inconclusive. As detailed on Snopes, the fact that all mentions of phrogging point back to these videos would **seem** to indicate that it’s fake, but as before, that’s not proof. Somewhere out there there has to be some hard evidence to say whether this is real or faked. The tease for “iCaught”, not surprisingly, made it sound like they were going to report this as a totally real phenomenon, but that’s just usual TV scare tactics. I’m still holding out hope that, just maybe, their report will include asking the question of whether the video is real, and then digging in to uncover the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/42 "2007-08-16T18:36:43Z")
No opinion on the videos, which I have not watched. I just want to comment on the concept that someone could be living in your house and you be unaware of it. Sure, in some huge McMansion where the couple is seldom home, I can see it, maybe. But generally it’s immediately obvious when someone else is living in your house. I used to be in a group house-sharing situation. Rent was very cheap, but the landlord rented to more unrelated people than the law allows, and did so sort of under-the-table. We each had a room and a kitchen cabinet (with a padlock) and shared the common areas, bathrooms, and fridge. The landlord was a Filipino Catholic, and he rented only to men, and had a “no girls living with you” policy. No idea if that was enforceable (not that it even matters) – that’s just what he told us. The lanlord also picked our housemates for us, whenever someone left. That is to say, we had no input. Needless to add, this resulted in a lot of gold-plated losers living there. The police became frequent visitors. There was one young man who was more trouble than most – he was hauled off in squad cars several times. At one point he moved his girlfriend into the house. An older gentleman who lived on the other (upstairs) floor complained, and this kid whined a lot about one of us bottom-floor-dwellers ratting him out. His stated premise was “there’s _no way_ the guy upstairs could have known a woman was living in the house” unless we’d told him. Never mind the loud arguments they’d get into, the stockings hanging in the bathroom in an all-male household, the perfume, her car in the driveway, the extra cooking, or all the other signs she was living there. :rolleyes: Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![MissMossie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@MissMossie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissMossie)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/43 "2007-08-16T19:24:42Z")
[QUOTE=norinew] Well, I, personally have encountered one case of what might be called “accidental phrogging”. We own both halves of a duplex, but only live in one half. The other half is used as storage/extra space for when the in-laws come to visit, etc. It’s semi-furnished. One morning, I went to the other side of the house to get some stuff I had stored over there, and there was a person sound asleep on the sofa. I couldn’t tell the gender of the person, all I could see was a head. I assumed my oldest daughter had told a friend they could crash there for the night or something. When my daughter got up, I asked her about it, and she said “No, I didn’t let anyone sleep there”. I consulted with my hubby, and we figured out that this was a person who _was not_ supposed to be there. We called the police. When the police arrived, the person was still sound asleep. The police woke him up (turned out to be a guy). Well, he had been drunk/stoned the previous night, and said his friend “so and so” told him he could crash in his living room any time. But he had the wrong house. Heh. I don’t know quite how he got in, but the lock wasn’t broken or jimmied. It could be that whoever closed the door last prior to the squatter’s entry hadn’t latched it tightly or something. Anyway, we decided it was an honest mistake, the guy seemed genuinely confused and apologetic. We didn’t press charges or anything. [/QUOTE] I had something similar happen to me last year that I hadn’t thought about until now. I rented the Catholic Campus Ministries house at my university last year and during the fall semester, the house was having major renovations being done on it. At one point, the floors in the front room and the office were being refinished, so all of that furniture was moved into the kitchen and dining room. Stuffed into two smallish rooms were a couple of couches, a coffee table, a dining room table, a desk, and a bunch of chairs in varying styles. The house was only a block away from campus and near where most of the Greek organizations had their houses, IOW, near where lots of parties happened. The morning after the floors were finally done, my roommate went downstairs to get breakfast and go to class only to find some girl asleep on a couch in the kitchen. She assumed it was a friend of mine and let the girl sleep, but did note that she reeked of alcohol. The Catholic Campus Minister came in, saw the girl asleep, and tried to find a blanket to cover her up with. She couldn’t find a blanket, but she could find an old altar cloth, so she carefully covered the girl with the altar cloth, trying not to wake her up. She did, however, wake the girl up and said, “Don’t worry, you’re safe. You’re at the Catholic house.” The minister then left the girl to sleep and ran some errands. When she returned to the house, the girl was gone. Now, I listened to descriptions of the girl from both the minister and my roommate. I asked around and I’m pretty positive she didn’t know me. It was just a random drunk girl who came into our house and fell asleep. We weren’t supposed to walk on the floors while the new finish was drying and had forgotten to lock the side door the night before. In this situation, I feel more sorry for the girl. Imagine waking up on a couch in a kitchen filled with furniture in a house that you don’t recognize to a middle aged lady covering you with an alter cloth saying, “Don’t worry, you’re safe. You’re at the Catholic house.” Would that freak anyone else out? ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/44 "2007-08-16T19:30:24Z")
[QUOTE=MissMossie] Imagine waking up on a couch in a kitchen filled with furniture in a house that you don’t recognize to a middle aged lady covering you with an alter cloth saying, “Don’t worry, you’re safe. You’re at the Catholic house.” Would that freak anyone else out? [/QUOTE] Yes, I would probably have started screaming. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/45 "2007-08-16T19:44:09Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] No opinion on the videos, which I have not watched. [/QUOTE] All that said, I respectfully think you’re missing the point. The idea is that someone sneaks into your home, and while you are there, they hush up and hide for as long as it takes. I don’t think it could be done in a ranch, even a large one , for very long. But a 3-4,000 sq. ft. home with an upstairs… certainly. I agree, that there seems to be a sixth-sense that kicks in when someone else is in the house with you — but if they went ninja on you — would you _really_ know? Also, they have an advantage: You’re obliviousness and ignorance to even the idea of phrogging, let alone the chances that someone is _actually_ sneaking around your house with you still in it. You’d dismiss the thought unless you had some real evidence to believe there was someone stowing-away. [I started a thread here, as to whether it could be pulled off.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8886649#post8886649) Not as to the veracity of it being a real counter-culture. But if _you_ had to do it, how long could you get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/46 "2007-08-16T20:56:00Z")
I blame [reading.](http://www.amazon.com/Mixed-up-Files-Mrs-Basil-Frankweiler/dp/1416949755/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-1365074-9108112?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187297649&sr=1-1) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/47 "2007-08-16T21:14:12Z")
I finished all 5 days and as it went on, my BS-meter kept going up. E.g. 1. Renee does not look like she survives on the equivalent of one meal a day. 2. The do not want to leave evidence out in case the owners come home unexpectedly, so why leave the paintings out? 3. The blinds are down to the roof access yet they never lower them while on the roof or shut the window (wouldn’t the smell infest the room?). ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/48 "2007-08-16T21:20:44Z")
[QUOTE=SaintCad] I finished all 5 days and as it went on, my BS-meter kept going up. E.g. 1. Renee does not look like she survives on the equivalent of one meal a day. 2. The do not want to leave evidence out in case the owners come home unexpectedly, so why leave the paintings out? 3. The blinds are down to the roof access yet they never lower them while on the roof or shut the window (wouldn’t the smell infest the room?). [/QUOTE] Missed the edit window 4) There is one video (IIRC during the art session) where I swear I hear a door downstairs shutting about 2 seconds before the end of the clip. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/49 "2007-08-16T23:52:55Z")
It just seems fake, the whole style of it, their acting. It also seems like a really stupid idea. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/50 "2007-08-17T00:14:16Z")
Nashville had a twisted murder case where a man was living in a closet in his lover’s home. She, of course, knew of his presence, but her husband didn’t. [Freeman case article](http://www.courttv.com/news/2006/0921/freeman_ctv.html) Many people didn’t buy her story. I’m not convinced either way. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/51 "2007-08-17T00:40:24Z")
There was at least one case that was just as strange. [Walburga “Dolly” Oesterreich kept her lover living in the attic for 20 years before he was discovered by her husband (the story is long but interesting).](http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/otto_sanhuber/1.html) . There was a shorter case in Nashville. These aren’t exactly the same because a member of the household assisted but the difficulty level, especially for the first one is way higher than living in someones house for while. I pulled off a stunt that was not quite the same but even more difficult sounding in high school so I don’t automatically discount what can be done if you can read people’s behavior patterns and typical reactions well. ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/52 "2007-08-17T04:58:00Z")
[QUOTE=MissMossie] The coffee maker is what makes me call bullshit on the girls. It’s a CuisinArt Grind and Brew, the same sort of coffee maker that my parents have. They’ve mentioned hearing the noise of coffee being ground in the morning, so the residents of the house use that function of the coffee maker, but apparently routinely leave two mugs worth of coffee-about four cups in my experience-left each day. Whole beans aren’t overly expensive, but they also aren’t cheap enough that its reasonable to believe people would regularly throw out a third of a pot of coffee everyday. The other option is that they’re making their own coffee after the residents leave. I don’t buy that either. That model has two different parts for the grinding mechanism, three different parts for the filter, a hidden button on the side that gives you access to the filter, a carafe, and a lid to said carafe. It has seven pieces that need to be cleaned and reassembled to make a pot of coffee. The grinding mechanism and the filter parts are not intuitive to get to either. If you’re unfamiliar with the coffee maker, it’s tricky to use. If they were making their own coffee in the morning, I would imagine them mentioning that it’s lucky they already knew how to use the damn thing, or would have taped them find the manual/figuring out how to use it. Seriously, I’m fairly technologically adept, but that model of coffee maker is overly complicated. So, yeah, there are a couple of things that put off my BS meter, but as soon as I noticed the coffee maker, I realized that this case couldn’t be real. [/QUOTE] My mom has a totally different coffee maker, but she regularly leaves one to two cups of coffee- sometimes up to two mug’s worth- because she doesn’t think the coffee tastes as good if it’s not made at its full capacity. I can’t remember the exact logic behind this, but it made sense at the time. (And sometimes I drink the coffee, so it doesn’t always go to waste.) What makes me want to call BS is their hair. Who would keep such long hair when they’re not sure when they can take showers/wash their hair- especially when it’s curly? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2007, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/53 "2007-08-17T06:23:51Z")
Wasn’t there a nod to it in the movie “The Lookout” ? ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/54 "2007-08-22T05:24:37Z")
Ok, tonight’s iCaught revealed the truth: It’s fake, total fiction. They interviewed the two girls, as well as the guy, John Stevens, who thought up the idea and directed the video. It was totally faked; it even took them three months to do the filming. Case closed. ---
**Author:** ![joeblow777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@joeblow777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joeblow777)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/55 "2020-04-15T13:06:07Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > You know, as horrifying as it seems, I can kinda see the thrill of attempting to get away with this. Especially if it were a rather large, luxurious home. I can imagine a lot of “guest rooms” and other places you could hide. The basement even. Then, when the residents leave for a while, or go to sleep for the night, you can sneak around, watch tv, eat their food, etc. Always living on that edge of getting caught. If you did, I can only imagine most people would be in such shock to turn on the light and see you and your cronies chilling out in one of their rooms, that you could just make a loud noise to startle them and BOLT for the door… and just keep running. > > Besides trespassing and petty theft, I wonder what else the state/government can slap you with criminally? As others have noted, felony burglary. Because B&E doesn’t require any actual “breaking”. If you open a door or window even slightly, that would constitute breaking and entering. And even that imaginary line thing might count. One reason it’s a felony, even if you don’t steal much, is because people’s privacy in their home is pretty sancrosanct. If you violate that, especially while they’re home, you deserve to be punished pretty severely. In fact, that could even be considered a home invasion. And has others have noted, you’re more likely to die doing something so stupid and disrespectful than you are to startle them and bolt for the door. An extremely stupid idea all around. ---
**Author:** ![joeblow777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@joeblow777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joeblow777)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/56 "2020-04-15T13:21:34Z")
P.S.: Watch the 70’s TV Movie “Bad Ronald” if you want to see a film about this, though. There are actually several movies about strangers living in a family’s attic. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/57 "2020-04-15T13:37:05Z")
Not trying to sell you a book but this is what came up first when googling (Manson Family creepy crawling) “Creepy crawling” was the Manson Family’s practice of secretly entering someone’s home and, without harming anyone, leaving only a trace of evidence that they had been there, some reminder that the sanctity of the private home had been breached. > **[Creepy Crawling: Charles Manson and the Many Lives of America's Most Infamous...](https://www.amazon.com/Creepy-Crawling-Charles-Americas-Infamous/dp/1628728930)** > > Creepy Crawling: Charles Manson and the Many Lives of America's Most Infamous Family \[Melnick, Jeffrey\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Creepy Crawling: Charles Manson and the Many Lives of America's Most Infamous Family ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/58 "2020-04-15T14:54:45Z")
Sounds like a good way to get shot. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/59 "2020-04-15T16:31:07Z")
> [@joeblow777](#): > > P.S.: Watch the 70’s TV Movie “Bad Ronald” if you want to see a film about this, though. There are actually several movies about strangers living in a family’s attic. Or the 2019 movie, _Parasite_. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706/60 "2020-04-15T22:07:47Z")
Notice that this is an old thread, but thought people might be interested that after my brother moved into a house, they started locking the basement doors because somebody was sleeping in the basement bedroom. The old owner wasn’t getting down the stairs very often anymore, and they figured she probably just hadn’t noticed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phrogging-is-this-for-real/415706.md?page=4)