# Phytochemicals in produce seem to be ignored by the experts. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 7, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263 "2005-06-07T05:30:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/81 "2005-06-09T17:29:56Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > I find it rather disturbing that the “veggie dog” has more protein than the “all-beef” frankfurter. Just how much hair do they allow in processed meat anyway? :eek: > > Stranger Well, I just looked up [Ballpark Beef Franks](http://www.ballparkfranks.com/index_content.html) (I’ll ignore the weirdly homoerotic subtext of their ads) and here are the ingredients: BEEF, WATER, CORN SYRUP, SALT, POTASSIUM LACTATE, FLAVORINGS, SODIUM PHOSPHATE, ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C), SODIUM NITRITE, EXTRACTIVES OF PAPRIKA. Here’s the Morningstar ingredient list: Wheat gluten, water, corn syrup solids, salt, dextrose, egg whites solids. Contains 2% or less of carrageenan, hydrolyzed corn, soy, and wheat protein, brown sugar, natural flavors from non-meat sources, torula yeast, spices, soy protein isolate, onion powder, garlic powder, natural smoke flavor, hydrolyzed torula and brewer’s yeast protein, cellulose gum, soy fiber, autolyzed yeast extract, paprika for color, xanthan gum, disodium guanylate, disodium inosinate, potassium chloride, red #3 and blue #1 for color. The egg whites probalby really help with the protein. You know, one thing I didn’t realize before when I got the data off the USDA database, 153 of the 188 calories from the beef frank are from FAT. That’s an awful lot. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/82 "2005-06-09T17:31:22Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > **SOAT** , hair IS protein. Yeah, I know, but it sounds more gross than asking how much of it is fat. (17g??? What, do they inject extra fat into the mix?) Just a little hyperbole there, a reaction being fed a steady diet of hot dogs, fish sticks and frozen pizza throughout my developing years. I can’t look at a hot dog now without wanting to incinerate it. The hotdogs in this [“experiement”](http://www.stinkymeat.net/) (SFW, but pretty nasty nonetheless) hold up surprisingly well until some unwitting and no-doubt now dead creature made off with them. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/83 "2005-06-09T17:34:53Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > Well, I just looked up [Ballpark Beef Franks](http://www.ballparkfranks.com/index_content.html) (I’ll ignore the weirdly homoerotic subtext of their ads) and here are the ingredients: > > BEEF, WATER, CORN SYRUP, SALT, POTASSIUM LACTATE, FLAVORINGS, SODIUM PHOSPHATE, ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C), SODIUM NITRITE, EXTRACTIVES OF PAPRIKA. > > Here’s the Morningstar ingredient list: > > Wheat gluten, water, corn syrup solids, salt, dextrose, egg whites solids. Contains 2% or less of carrageenan, hydrolyzed corn, soy, and wheat protein, brown sugar, natural flavors from non-meat sources, torula yeast, spices, soy protein isolate, onion powder, garlic powder, natural smoke flavor, hydrolyzed torula and brewer’s yeast protein, cellulose gum, soy fiber, autolyzed yeast extract, paprika for color, xanthan gum, disodium guanylate, disodium inosinate, potassium chloride, red #3 and blue #1 for color. > > The egg whites probalby really help with the protein. > > You know, one thing I didn’t realize before when I got the data off the USDA database, 153 of the 188 calories from the beef frank are from FAT. That’s an awful lot. Hey, I wasn’t trying to defend eating hot dogs - so far as I know, no beneficial anti-cancer properties are found in pig anus. My own feelings that unprocessed food is better apply just as much to those things as to veggie dogs. It’s just a personal opinion - I find it faintly disturbing to fashion a parody of a meat product out of soy beans. It just doesn’t strike me as harmonious with many of the attitudes of the natural health folks. But then I always say that I’m a vegetarian because I don’t want to eat meat. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/84 "2005-06-09T17:37:45Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > EXTRACTIVES OF PAPRIKA. Oh, so that’s what gives it its characteristic amorphous meat flavor. 😃 > [@tremorviolet](#): > > You know, one thing I didn’t realize before when I got the data off the USDA database, 153 of the 188 calories from the beef frank are from FAT. That’s an awful lot. They might as well just stuff some lard into a tube and sell it. Call 'em…Lard Franks. But I guess you’d need something to bind the lard together so it doesn’t all drip out when grilling. I suppose that’s what the corn syrup is for. ::shudder:: Stranger ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/85 "2005-06-09T17:58:29Z")
You guys eat the wrong hot dogs. I saw a film of how Vienna makes its dogs and it was hardly disgusting at all. No snouts or anuses, just large chunks of dead cow that could’ve been trimmed of fat a little better. But then they are kosher, and I think that might have a lot to do with the quality of their ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/86 "2005-06-09T18:16:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Vienna … No snouts or anuses Those dogs don’t Shine! ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/87 "2005-06-09T19:29:05Z")
Ok, total thread hijack but I was looking for nutrition info on the Vienna franks to see how they stack up and found [this USDA page](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Hot_Dogs/index.asp) about hot dogs. > [@](#): > > Mechanically Separated Meat (MSM) > A paste-like and batter-like meat product produced by forcing beef or pork bones, with attached edible meat, under high pressure through a sieve or similar device to separate the bone from the edible meat tissue. Mechanically separated meat has been used in certain meat and meat products since the late 1970’s. > > In 1982, a final rule published by FSIS on mechanically separated meat said it was safe and established a standard of identity for the food product. Some restrictions were made on how much can be used and the type of products in which it can be used. This restrictions were based on concerns for limited intake of certain components in MSM like calcium. Mechanically separated meat must be labeled as “mechanically separated beef or pork” in the ingredients statement. Hot dogs can contain no more than 20% mechanically separated beef or pork. Ick. Hmmmm, couldn’t find a Vienna nutrition page but I did find one for [Hebrew National Franks](http://www.hebrewnational.com/pages/products/franks/beef_franks.jsp) which I would bet would be similar. Hebrew Nationa Beef Frank (49g): Calories 150 **Calories from fat 130** Fat 14 g Protein 6 g Fiber 0g That’s still an awful lot of fat. They must use really fatty parts of the cow in hot dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/88 "2005-06-09T19:52:53Z")
You need to go back a page and check Hebrew National’s [97% Fat Free Beef Franks (49g)](http://www.hebrewnational.com/pages/products/franks/fatfree_franks.jsp): Calories 45 Calories from fat 15 Fat 1.5 g Protein 6 g Fiber 0 g Less fat than a bun! ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/89 "2005-06-09T20:00:55Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > You need to go back a page and check Hebrew National’s [97% Fat Free Beef Franks (49g)](http://www.hebrewnational.com/pages/products/franks/fatfree_franks.jsp): > > Calories 45 > Calories from fat 15 > Fat 1.5 g > Protein 6 g > Fiber 0 g > > Less fat than a bun! Didja notice _how_ they made it so low fat? Ingredients: Beef, water, modified food starch\*, salt, **hydrolyzed soy protein** (bolding mine), spice, paprika, potassium chloride, natural flavorings, sodium erythorbate, sodium nitrite. \*Ingredient in excess of amount permitted in regular beef franks. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/90 "2005-06-09T20:16:14Z")
All this discussion about mechanically seperated meat and hot dog constituants is making me want to eat…a nice big bowl of quinoa with sauteed mushrooms and zucchini. 🙂 Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Fuel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263/91 "2005-06-10T03:52:41Z")
> [@Brain Wreck](#): > > Getting back to the OP’s original question… > > Your original question was why the experts don’t want to talk about it… that’s the answer. Now if you want to talk about the benefits of phytochemicals, you’ll have to name which ones you want to talk about, and what benefits you think they have. Ok, the phytochemicals I am most interested in are: 1. The one that gives the item its color, 2. The phytochemical that is of the greatest quantity in a given item 3. The most commonly found phytochemical(s) from item to item (most popular). These would naturally, logically be the ones we would like to focus on, correct? I am sure the ones that fit these parameters have been studied extensively… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/phytochemicals-in-produce-seem-to-be-ignored-by-the-experts/307263.md?page=4)