# Piano Q: Ebony and Ivory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 5, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588 "2002-12-05T01:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/1 "2002-12-05T01:22:28Z")
We know the white keys are ivory, supposedly from elephant tusk. Is that still true today? And, what is ebony? I Wager it’s a highly-polished wood, correct? What kind of wood or specific tree? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/2 "2002-12-05T01:41:19Z")
Piano keys aren’t generally made of the same solid material all the way through, but have veneers of an appropriate colour applied to another base material. Depending on how much you wanted to pay and how old the instrument was, you might get either real ebony and ivory or cheaper materials. Steinway & Sons, for instance, use the word “ivory” as a colour in their sales literature, but the trade in new objects (as opposed to antiques) made from ivory is controlled by the CITES convention IIRC, so it’s unlikely that real elephant ivory is used to coat the keys of new pianos these days. Ebony is a family of trees (_Ebonaceae_). If the real thing isn’t used, then another hardwood with a black lacquer finish or a plastic finish would be used instead. What is it with you and musical instruments at the moment? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/3 "2002-12-05T02:51:10Z")
It is still possible to buy [ivory for piano keys"](http://www.ivorybuyer.com/sales/pianokeys.htm). However, I suspect that piano keys are now covered with plastic which might even be superior to ivory although it doesn’t have the _cachet._ ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/4 "2002-12-05T02:58:26Z")
Kawai uses a polymer coating for both black and white keys, with timber underneath. ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/5 "2002-12-05T05:58:26Z")
Most of what I’ve seen in recent years is apparently vinyl caps for both colors. I save ivory keytops to use as inlay material, and the ebony keys to use for small parts for stringed instruments. Both are getting harder to acquire. The last time I looked at buying “fresh” ebony, it was $54 a board foot (12"x12"x1"). ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/6 "2002-12-05T06:54:12Z")
I don’t know if they use it for piano keys, but mammoth ivory is legal to buy and sell since mammoths can only go extinct once. Mammoth ivory isn’t as rare as you might think, but they’re not making any more of it. Unfortunately, the quality is usually low. There was an article about it in the _Wall Street Journal_ a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/7 "2002-12-05T08:31:52Z")
For about a year I used an upright piano with real ivory keys. It didn’t look or feel as posh as you might think. The ivory yellows as it ages, and it gradually dissolves from moisture, leaving a slight chalky feel on the fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/8 "2002-12-05T08:48:13Z")
Ditto **Walloon**. It was an enormous relief to replace an old Mignon with a new Kawai. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/9 "2002-12-05T12:55:32Z")
White keys are ivory, bone or plastic. Plastic is a distant third. I’d pay to have plastic keys replaced, but that’s a little extreme for most folks. Ivory/bone feels sensuous to the finger – something natural that’s a pleasure. Plastic just feels like nothing – you have to ignore it. Ivory is not quite illegal, but so difficult to get on a regular basis that it isn’t used much, now. Bone is not difficult to get, but is not popular – I think. The way to get ivory on your piano is to buy an old junker, and then strip the keys. This would cost big bucks – and I’m not sure how practical it is, but it has been done. Black keys are almost never made of ebony – it’s far too expensive. Other wood is selected, and coated with shellack. Larry Fine’s “The Piano Book” mentions this about keys in general “…keys actually flex slightly when played hard, robbing thehammer of some power, and can even break. Making keys as rigid and durable as possible is a high priority for makers of top-quality instruments. Measures taken include: using well-seasoned, straight-grained wood with the grain oriented in the direction of maximum resistance … using hardwood buttons…” So there are two major issues: how the surface feels, and how stiff the key is. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/10 "2002-12-05T13:02:31Z")
**partly\_warmer:** Does your post sound like something that Harris would have put into Lecter’s mouth, or is just my imagination? ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/11 "2002-12-05T13:11:35Z")
Had to look up “Harris Lecter” on Google to get a drift of your drift. I’m guessing you are refering to my preference for ivory? I’ve never heard a pianist say they prefer plastic. Never. I wasn’t trying to put any spin on the info, just answer the OP as directly (and meaningfully) as I could. ---
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/12 "2002-12-05T16:24:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > **I don’t know if they use it for piano keys, but mammoth ivory is legal to buy and sell since mammoths can only go extinct once. Mammoth ivory isn’t as rare as you might think, but they’re not making any more of it.** Holy crap! My whoosh-o-meter maxed out when I read that (in GQ? From a mod?) but [he wasn’t kidding](http://www.coastivory.com/mammoth1.htm). I just can’t believe it! ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/13 "2002-12-05T17:32:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*What is it with you and musical instruments at the moment? \*\* It was one of those rambling conversations which led from clarinets to saxophones and then to the materials used to make various instruments, and hey, what IS ebony, anyhow? etc… - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/14 "2002-12-05T20:12:53Z")
I recently bought an old uprigth from 1913 or so, and I can actually tickle the ivories. There is a little bit of yellowing but the feel is wonderful compared to new models. Some of them have chipped on the “overhang” though, and when I had an appraiser come in to see the piano he said that you can still get ivory keytops off old pianos for $15 each key (Canadian Dollars) so it will cost me about 300 to fix them. The black keys are actual ebony wood as well… ---
**Author:** ![starfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@starfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starfish)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/15 "2002-12-06T03:08:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by partly\_warmer \* > \*\*Ivory is not quite illegal, but so difficult to get on a regular basis that it isn’t used much, now. > > Black keys are almost never made of ebony – it’s far too expensive. \*\* Interesting - ivory is available; it’s the ebony that’s hard to get. ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/16 "2002-12-06T07:16:42Z")
Before anyone jumps on me, I believe ivory is available now in two situations: 1. It’s recycled from some other use of ivory. 2. It comes from a certified source (I.e., from an elephant killed for conservation measures). I can’t swear to this, though. Ebony is just an expensive hardwood. It’s very dark and dense. I think I’ve played on ebony keys at some point, but if so, I don’t remember it making any great impression. I prefer _not_ to feel key wood grain under my fingers. If my reaction is typical, then, ebony is not just more expensive, it’s worse than the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/17 "2002-12-06T13:51:11Z")
I do know that perfect harmony can only be achieved with keys of these materials. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/18 "2002-12-06T14:05:12Z")
You speak of Michael Jackson and perfect harmony? In harmony with what? In what universe? ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/19 "2002-12-06T14:21:50Z")
Harmony between him and Macca, before the scumbag turned on him, and bought the rights to the Beatles songs, effectively keeping many things out of circulation for years. Jackson’s not only a swine, but he also missed out on a long-term relationship that would have been good for both of them. Such is life. Art. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588/20 "2002-12-06T15:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by partly\_warmer \* > **Larry Fine’s “The Piano Book” mentions this about keys in general "…** Larry Fine? THE Larry Fine? RR [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/piano-q-ebony-and-ivory/140588.md?page=2)