# Pic of kid w/ his .22 rifle posted on FB - Child Services & cops show up demanding to search house **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429 "2013-03-20T04:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/61 "2013-03-21T22:27:10Z")
I don’t think that’s what he said. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/62 "2013-03-21T22:31:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Apparently someone thought there might be a reason to call CPS, since they did call CPS. that’s astoundingly weak. a hell of a lot of people think they have good reasons to do stupid shit. I mean, I’m sure at least some of [these people](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=1602318&page=1#.UUuIX5LD9Gk) thought they had a “good reason” to call 911. > [@](#): > > Sadly for you, most people DO want a society where sometimes the calls about possible abuse are not actual abuse. I don’t know why you think it’s “sad” for me. > [@](#): > > Most people feel investigating things that sometimes turn out to not be actual abuse is an okay thing because lots of times those investigations show that abuse was in fact occurring. Unless you figure out a way to control what each every person’s personal judgement on abuse includes (and you can make sure it matches your own), some of the things that get called in are going to seem trivial to you, whereas obviously to the person who made the effort to call it in, it seems more problematic. any asshole can call CPS on someone for any reason they feel like. > [@](#): > > And what is your cite that that was the reason for calling the picture in? _it’s all the fuck we have to go on._ > [@](#): > > I have to disagree with your characterizing a CPS worker doing her job in the manner proscribed as “going apeshit”. And in fact it looks like she (and the officer(s(?)) present were doing their jobs. In light of how the final outcome seems to match the facts as we know them, I’d say they did their jobs well. as far as we know, CPS was called because someone saw a picture of a kid holding a rifle. Given that, the CPS worker (escorted by four police officers) should never have gone to his house in the first place. I wonder how many other kids were having the shit beaten out of them while she demanded to search this guy’s house. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/63 "2013-03-21T22:35:26Z")
Missed the edit window: It’s like doing a news story about a guy who was mad because a roadblock looking for escaped serial killers (they were on a supervised weekend visit to Las Vegas and the bus crashed, w/e) called the news to tell them he was mad because it made him late to his kid’s soccer game and how they had no right to impede his movement and how it’s an example of his they can pluck you off the street and force you out of your car for no reason AND IT"S TYRRANY… when clearly police can and do set up roadblocks, and nothing illegal happened, and his rights weren’t infringed and it isn’t tyranny; it’s part of the normal functioning of our society. The only interesting thing is that someone thought that the story was about the event and not about the crazed rhetoric that accompanied the father’s reaction (and how that rhetoric seems to resonate so strongly) even when it’s not entirely backed up _the events as he himself described them_. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/64 "2013-03-21T22:43:07Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I was reading this on Preview and I realized that I guess what bothers me most is that some news organization and some people think that the story is about why the guy got mad, when I see the only thing remarkable being that the guy got mad enough to call a news organization to tell them that he’s mad even tho nothing illegal or untoward took place. He didn’t. He posted it on a message board. The story was seen on the message board by a pro-gun rights website which ran its own story and in turn it was picked up by the media. So post to me on this message board about how it annoys you that he posted the story on a different message board. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/65 "2013-03-21T22:44:30Z")
He didnt say it was tyranny. He said forcing your way into a house and forcing someone to open a safe, without a warrant, would be tyranny. I took that as explanation for why he didnt allow the police to do those things. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/66 "2013-03-21T22:46:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Missed the edit window: > > It’s like doing a news story about a guy who was mad because a roadblock looking for escaped serial killers (they were on a supervised weekend visit to Las Vegas and the bus crashed, w/e) called the news to tell them he was mad because it made him late to his kid’s soccer game and how they had no right to impede his movement and how it’s an example of his they can pluck you off the street and force you out of your car for no reason AND IT"S TYRRANY… when clearly police can and do set up roadblocks, and nothing illegal happened, and his rights weren’t infringed and it isn’t tyranny; it’s part of the normal functioning of our society. The only interesting thing is that someone thought that the story was about the event and not about the crazed rhetoric that accompanied the father’s reaction (and how that rhetoric seems to resonate so strongly) even when it’s not entirely backed up _the events as he himself described them_. except being inconvenienced by a roadblock doesn’t mean he also has his kids taken away. A frivolous or malicious report to CPS can do that. I don’t know what the fuck your problem is. I have no issue with law enforcement or social services. They play an important role and society needs them. I just don’t believe they need limitless powers. Which is why I find statements like **kushiel** ’s to be chilling. Police officers and social workers are human. They don’t always act completely rationally or correctly just because they’ve been given a badge or a job title. That’s a big part of the reason we have several of the constitutional protections we do. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/67 "2013-03-22T00:01:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Missed the edit window: > > It’s like doing a news story about a guy who was mad because a roadblock looking for escaped serial killers (they were on a supervised weekend visit to Las Vegas and the bus crashed, w/e) called the news to tell them he was mad because it made him late to his kid’s soccer game and how they had no right to impede his movement and how it’s an example of his they can pluck you off the street and force you out of your car for no reason AND IT"S TYRRANY… when clearly police can and do set up roadblocks, and nothing illegal happened, and his rights weren’t infringed and it isn’t tyranny; it’s part of the normal functioning of our society. The only interesting thing is that someone thought that the story was about the event and not about the crazed rhetoric that accompanied the father’s reaction (and how that rhetoric seems to resonate so strongly) even when it’s not entirely backed up _the events as he himself described them_. Your analogy is missing the police opening the man’s trunk, and seeing a safe, and demanding that he open it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/68 "2013-03-22T00:17:27Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He didn’t. He posted it on a message board. The story was seen on the message board by a pro-gun rights website which ran its own story and in turn it was picked up by the media. So post to me on this message board about how it annoys you that he posted the story on a different message board. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there thanks for the clarification; I didn’t know that was how it got picked up by the media. Point still stands about some of the media thinking this was a story at all. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/69 "2013-03-22T01:49:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there thanks for the clarification; I didn’t know that was how it got picked up by the media. Point still stands about some of the media thinking this was a story at all. The links are in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/70 "2013-03-22T10:49:10Z")
_ **Society Functioning Pretty Much As It Should; Area Man Upset By This Speaks Out** _ ---
**Author:** ![JLRogers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@JLRogers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JLRogers)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/71 "2013-03-22T12:26:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > _ **Society Functioning Pretty Much As It Should; Area Man Upset By This Speaks Out** _ No, not really. Even though CPS is apparently obligated to respond to every report their response was excessive and heavy-handed. However, it seems that those here who think guns are inherently evil disagree. Not much discussion to be had, really. edit: To be fair, it could be that those posters only believe gun _owners_ to be evil. It’s difficult to say. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/72 "2013-03-22T15:42:53Z")
The homeowner appears to be in the right on this. Good for him knowing to call a lawyer and for standing up for his rights. I clicked on the second link and read most of it before realizing I was on “the Blaze.” Now I feel dirty. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/73 "2013-03-22T16:09:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > _ **Society Functioning Pretty Much As It Should; Area Man Upset By This Speaks Out** _ “Proof by Assertion” Still Employed in Online Discussions; Message Board Poster Unaware of its Ineffectiveness ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/74 "2013-03-22T16:27:29Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > except being inconvenienced by a roadblock doesn’t mean he also has his kids taken away. A frivolous or malicious report to CPS can do that. > > I don’t know what the fuck your problem is. I have no issue with law enforcement or social services. They play an important role and society needs them. I just don’t believe they need limitless powers. Which is why I find statements like **kushiel** ’s to be chilling. Police officers and social workers are human. They don’t always act completely rationally or correctly just because they’ve been given a badge or a job title. That’s a big part of the reason we have several of the constitutional protections we do. Quoting this just so some of you can read it again and maybe realize how right it is. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/75 "2013-03-22T16:39:00Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > No, not really. Even though CPS is apparently obligated to respond to every report their response was excessive and heavy-handed. > > However, it seems that those here who think guns are inherently evil disagree. Not much discussion to be had, really. > > edit: To be fair, it could be that those posters only believe gun _owners_ to be evil. It’s difficult to say. I don’t know. I don’t think they overreacted at all. I mean, in regards to what happened before they entered the house. Because everything that happened in there is kinda unverified right now. But more so, bringing the police officers. If I were a CPS worker who had to investigate EVERY allegation of abuse, and it was regarding a possible ‘assault’ weapon, I’d sure as hell bring cops along. I mean, look how angry this guy got. I’m not saying he went completely overboard but, people don’t usually appreciate CPS coming to their door. The worker knew there were probably firearms in the household from the report, so why take a chance? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/76 "2013-03-22T16:52:22Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > I’m wondering what really happened. The dad’s description of the events sound extremely exaggerated. Why wouldn’t the Social Worker identify herself? My wife has business cards with her contact information, but maybe Social Workers in New Jersey run under different rules? Do you see a picture of her? The story rings true enough. I’ve had police officers not identify themselves or answer questions. There wasn’t anything particularly boisterous about what was written about the event. It was short and to the point. I don’t see where the person writing it warranted the “needle dick” commentary. That seems a bit over the top. This was a warrant-less search and the homeowner called them on it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/77 "2013-03-22T16:56:13Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > I don’t know. I don’t think they overreacted at all. I mean, in regards to what happened before they entered the house. Because everything that happened in there is kinda unverified right now. But more so, bringing the police officers. If I were a CPS worker who had to investigate EVERY allegation of abuse, and it was regarding a possible ‘assault’ weapon, I’d sure as hell bring cops along. I mean, look how angry this guy got. I’m not saying he went completely overboard but, people don’t usually appreciate CPS coming to their door. The worker knew there were probably firearms in the household from the report, so why take a chance? There’s nothing unreasonable about it and there’s nothing stopping them from asking questions they have no right to know. That’s where it ends. And it did when the homeowner exerted his rights. There is usually nothing to be gained by participating in a fishing expedition. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/78 "2013-03-22T18:05:57Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > except being inconvenienced by a roadblock doesn’t mean he also has his kids taken away. A frivolous or malicious report to CPS can do that. > > I don’t know what the fuck your problem is. I have no issue with law enforcement or social services. They play an important role and society needs them. I just don’t believe they need limitless powers. Which is why I find statements like **kushiel** ’s to be chilling. Police officers and social workers are human. They don’t always act completely rationally or correctly just because they’ve been given a badge or a job title. That’s a big part of the reason we have several of the constitutional protections we do. The police wanted to see all his guns and registration. They weren’t about to execute him by firing squad on the spot. CPS won’t take his kid away from him for the rest of his life if they found one unregistered gun. He’s not going to get a life sentence over that photo. There is a system and protections in place. So he has to open his gun safe, and he is charged with having an unregistered firearm (I don’t know what the exact law is). He then gets to select a lawyer to represent him in a court of law over that charge. Where’s the problem? If he was obeying the law, he has nothing to hide. The police and social workers do not have limitless powers. If you comply with police you will not be physically harmed. If you comply with the social worker, you aren’t going to lose your children forever unless many people along the line decide you are unfit. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/79 "2013-03-22T18:34:50Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > . Where’s the problem? If he was obeying the law, he has nothing to hide. . . . > > If you comply with the social worker, you aren’t going to lose your children forever unless many people along the line decide you are unfit. I can’t abide this line of thinking. I won’t speak to the specifics of this case under discussion, but the general thinking that I should give up my rights because I have nothing to hide is extremely distasteful for me. I do not have to prove I’m obeying the law by showing the government anything. They have to prove I’m doing something illegal. If a police officer asks me to prove I’m not carrying drugs in my trunk; I WILL NOT do it. Furthermore, I will fight through any legal means to prevent this mentality from being codified, or even socially acceptable. For the second point, similarly. I will not comply with a social worker if they overstep their authority. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/80 "2013-03-22T18:48:50Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I can’t abide this line of thinking. I won’t speak to the specifics of this case under discussion, but the general thinking that I should give up my rights because I have nothing to hide is extremely distasteful for me. > > I do not have to prove I’m obeying the law by showing the government anything. They have to prove I’m doing something illegal. If a police officer asks me to prove I’m not carrying drugs in my trunk; I WILL NOT do it. Furthermore, I will fight through any legal means to prevent this mentality from being codified, or even socially acceptable. > > For the second point, similarly. I will not comply with a social worker if they overstep their authority. exactly. The police arrived and wanted to do a warrant-less search. The answer should be no on principal. Look at the freak-show airport travel has become. We allowed this to happen and there appears no end in sight with this mentality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429.md?page=5)