# Pic of kid w/ his .22 rifle posted on FB - Child Services & cops show up demanding to search house **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429 "2013-03-20T04:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/81 "2013-03-22T19:30:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This was a warrant-less search No, it wasn’t. > [@kushiel](#): > > So he has to open his gun safe… The above premise you start your scenario with is false. Did you not read the links in the OP or is there some other reason you started off with an incorrect statement? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/82 "2013-03-22T19:43:43Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > The police wanted to see all his guns and registration. They weren’t about to execute him by firing squad on the spot. CPS won’t take his kid away from him for the rest of his life if they found one unregistered gun. He’s not going to get a life sentence over that photo. There is no mandatory gun registration in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/83 "2013-03-22T20:05:35Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I can’t abide this line of thinking. I won’t speak to the specifics of this case under discussion, but the general thinking that I should give up my rights because I have nothing to hide is extremely distasteful for me. > > I do not have to prove I’m obeying the law by showing the government anything. They have to prove I’m doing something illegal. If a police officer asks me to prove I’m not carrying drugs in my trunk; I WILL NOT do it. Furthermore, I will fight through any legal means to prevent this mentality from being codified, or even socially acceptable. > > For the second point, similarly. I will not comply with a social worker if they overstep their authority. In theory I am in agreement with you. In real life it’s hard to negotiate when you’re handcuffed and in a throat lock… better to do exactly what the Nice policeman tells you to do. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/84 "2013-03-22T20:12:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you see a picture of her? The story rings true enough. I’ve had police officers not identify themselves or answer questions. There wasn’t anything particularly boisterous about what was written about the event. It was short and to the point. I don’t see where the person writing it warranted the “needle dick” commentary. That seems a bit over the top. This was a warrant-less search and the homeowner called them on it. I don’t know about in New Jersey, but apparently in California, you are not permitted to take a photograph of a Social Worker, nor their vehicle. The Social Worker is required to identify themselves, which means the guy’s testimony is either bullshit or the Social Worker was breaking protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/85 "2013-03-22T20:14:01Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > No, it wasn’t. According to the account listed in the OP, they had no warrant. Is that information incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/86 "2013-03-22T20:15:19Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > In theory I am in agreement with you. In real life it’s hard to negotiate when you’re handcuffed and in a throat lock… better to do exactly what the Nice policeman tells you to do. Things didn’t get to that level. Not even close, so I don’t know why you’re bringing up an extreme scenario. Even in such a scenario, you can keep your mouth shut (except for maybe giving your name and address) and refuse permission for a search when it’s legal to do so. (I don’t know about in Italy, but this is true in NJ.) ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/87 "2013-03-22T20:17:36Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > According to the account listed in the OP, they had no warrant. Is that information incorrect? There was no search so there was no “warrantless search.” ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/88 "2013-03-22T20:32:55Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > Things didn’t get to that level. Not even close, so I don’t know why you’re bringing up an extreme scenario. Even in such a scenario, you can keep your mouth shut (except for maybe giving your name and address) and refuse permission for a search when it’s legal to do so. (I don’t know about in Italy, but this is true in NJ.) Rights? Rights? That shit don’t play in North Philly. You say No to a PPD officer, you may find yourself spitting teeth. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/89 "2013-03-22T20:39:24Z")
That’s nice, but it has nothing to do with this thread. No one is talking about situations where cops are beating people. If ANYONE is choking you, it’s a good idea to cooperate. I hope you’re happy that I agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/90 "2013-03-22T20:44:42Z")
the point is that the guy waving his cell phone around claiming his attorney was in charge could have made a critical mistake. He is lucky that the only thing bruised was his ego. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/91 "2013-03-22T20:50:57Z")
He’s not lucky and what he “could” have done is irrelevant. He did the right thing. The part about claiming his attorney was in charge and waving his cell phone around are just things you made up. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/92 "2013-03-22T22:17:38Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > Yeeeaaahhh, I don’t care who you are, if the police want you to show them all the guns you have in your house and their registration and you refuse, you should get into trouble. What do you believe the purpose of a search warrant to be? Why do you think they are obligated to get one before searching a home? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/93 "2013-03-22T22:18:18Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Rights? Rights? That shit don’t play in North Philly. You say No to a PPD officer, you may find yourself spitting teeth. well, if you had nothing to hide, then what’s the big deal? You didn’t need those teeth anyway. > [@kushiel](#): > > The police wanted to see all his guns and registration. they can “want” all they, er, want. If they really think it’s that important, they can go get a warrant. That’s what warrants are _for._ It’s so they have to have some demonstrable cause to go to a judge and say “we think this guy’s doing _x_ so we want to have a look around.” Otherwise the police can bully anyone into submitting to a search because “there’s nothing to worry about if you haven’t done anything wrong.” > [@](#): > > The police and social workers do not have limitless powers. If you comply with police you will not be physically harmed. and what if they decide to detain me just because they don’t like the way I look? I mean, I don’t know what country you live in (if you’ve posted about it I apologize for missing it) but there’s no shortage of examples of police treating people unfairly. Especially minorities. I live in the Detroit area, and it’s been well-known that being black and driving around in certain suburbs is a good way to get pulled over (thus the coining of the phrase “DWB”- “Driving While Black.”) The suburb I live in is a couple of minutes north of the city of Detroit. One of the main thoroughfares passes through the Grosse Pointes, and they even have/had a term for people who had the poor taste to be black and driving down that road. And doing so was likely to get you pulled over for even the thinnest of reasons. _That_ is what the attitude of “if you have nothing to hide” leads to. > [@](#): > > If you comply with the social worker, you aren’t going to lose your children forever unless many people along the line decide you are unfit. you’ve already said you don’t know the relevant laws, and that you don’t live in this country, so you’ll excuse me if I say that you have absolutely no basis on which to make this kind of statement. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/94 "2013-03-22T22:28:13Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > He’s not lucky and what he “could” have done is irrelevant. He did the right thing. The part about claiming his attorney was in charge and waving his cell phone around are just things you made up. No. That is in fact exactly what he did. He called his attorney and let it be known AS the event occurred that his lawyer was in on it. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/95 "2013-03-22T22:42:43Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > No. That is in fact exactly what he did. No. it’s not “exactly” what he did. There are no reports that he waved his cell phone around or claimed his attorney was in charge. And he wasn’t lucky that he wasn’t assaulted by the police. He was not harmed because that’s what happens the vast majority of the time you behave properly when the police come to your house. No luck needed. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/96 "2013-03-22T22:45:12Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > No. That is in fact exactly what he did. He called his attorney and let it be known AS the event occurred that his lawyer was in on it. :dubious: Do you have a cite for him “claiming his attorney was in charge”? Do you have a cite for him “waving his cell phone around”? Just saying that he called his attorney certainly isn’t a cite for either of those statements. I think you _did_ make those up. ETA: Thinking about it, there’s been an awful lot of “just making shit up” going on in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/97 "2013-03-23T01:00:43Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > There was no search so there was no “warrantless search.” Yes there was. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/98 "2013-03-23T01:36:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Yes there was. Then post the evidence that a search occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/99 "2013-03-23T01:49:36Z")
1. The homeowner had a protected interest. 2. The police entered his home with the intent to gather evidence. Which of those two things do you dispute? ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/100 "2013-03-23T01:53:16Z")
I dispute that a search occurred since that was your claim. Are you going to post evidence for this search or are you going to retract your statement? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429.md?page=6)