# Pic of kid w/ his .22 rifle posted on FB - Child Services & cops show up demanding to search house **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429 "2013-03-20T04:20:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/101 "2013-03-23T01:56:31Z")
Why the fuck would I retract my statement? My evidence is that the police were in his home, and he had a protected interest. Which of those two things do you dispute? ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/102 "2013-03-23T02:05:19Z")
What a lame tactic! You made a claim which I disputed it. You then made two new ones and asked me which of _those_ I dispute to steer away from your making of a claim that you can’t back up. Do you really think this is going to fool anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/103 "2013-03-23T02:08:36Z")
No, you made a claim first, and have yet to even try and support it. Then I disputed it, and backed up my position. Talk about lame. My claims are 100% supported by the account given in the OP, so who the fuck do you think I’m trying to fool? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/104 "2013-03-23T02:10:21Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > I dispute that a search occurred since that was your claim. Are you going to post evidence for this search or are you going to retract your statement? “I walk into my house and give my phone to the first cop I see.” Cops in the house. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/105 "2013-03-23T02:16:25Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No, you made a claim first, and have yet to even try and support it. That’s because it’s obvious to everyone reading this thread that bothered to click on the links in the OP that a search did not take place. But I’ll post the evidence for you: > [@](#): > > After a while of them threatening to take my kids, get warrants and intimidation they left. Empty handed and seeing nothing. > [@](#): > > Then I disputed it, and backed up my position. You didn’t back up your position. You said a search occurred and have not provided any evidence for it. > [@](#): > > “I walk into my house and give my phone to the first cop I see.” > > Cops in the house. That doesn’t back up your claim. You realize that they didn’t barge into the house, right? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/106 "2013-03-23T02:39:43Z")
Oh, I see now. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You think that the police can’t perform a search if they’ve been invited into the house. No wonder we’re getting nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/107 "2013-03-23T02:49:15Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Oh, I see now. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You think that the police can’t perform a search if they’ve been invited into the house. No wonder we’re getting nowhere. Are you serious? This is getting hard to buy. I never said the police can’t perform a search if they’ve been invited into your home. They can under certain circumstances, which wasn’t the case here as they kept asking for permission and left the house the first time they were asked to. But whether or not I think that the police can’t perform a search if they’ve been invited into a house is irrelevant. You claimed a search took place and have failed to provide any evidence that one did take place or even attempt to dispute the evidence that I presented that one didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/108 "2013-03-23T02:52:14Z")
You made your claim first, so back it up. I’ve thoroughly supported mine, even if you have kept your fingers in your ears the entire time. Back your claim up. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/109 "2013-03-23T03:01:25Z")
In the United States, a search has occurred if two things happen: 1. An officer of the law attempts to gather information from a person, place, or thing, and 2. The citizen has an interest in maintaining privacy. Both of the above happened in this case, as outlined by the account in the OP. #1 occurred when the police officers entered the home: > [@](#): > > I walk in my house and hand the phone to the first cop I see. …and attempt to obtain information: > [@](#): > > They wanted to look around and check all my guns out, make sure they were all registered. This establishes that the cops were in the house with the intent to gather information. #2 is in evidence, based on the homeowner’s desire to maintain his privacy, here: > [@](#): > > Obviously that didn’t go well because I refused. and here: > [@](#): > > I was told I was being “unreasonable” and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn’t open my safe. Conditions 1 and 2 are satisfied, as outlined in the OP, which 100% supports my assertion that a search took place. Your turn. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/110 "2013-03-23T03:12:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > You made your claim first, so back it up. I’ve thoroughly supported mine, even if you have kept your fingers in your ears the entire time. Back your claim up. I did. See post 105. Do you know why they threatened to get warrants? Because they wouldn’t perform a search without permission or a warrant and they didn’t. They were denied permission several times and left _without a search ever having taken place_. > [@](#): > > In the United States, a search has occurred if two things happen: > > 1. An officer of the law attempts to gather information, and > 2. The citizen has an interest in maintaining privacy. Where did you obtain that definition? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/111 "2013-03-23T03:17:55Z")
Post 105 does not offer any evidence to support your assertion. You just restated the assertion. It is possible for an offer to leave a search without obtaining evidence. I want evidence of your assertion. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/112 "2013-03-23T03:19:58Z")
I posted a quote from the article that proves my position. You’re not going to tell me where you obtained that definition, are you? ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/113 "2013-03-23T03:21:47Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > It is possible for an offer to leave a search without obtaining evidence. Why do you keep making non-sequitors like this? Please don’t take offense to this question, but have you been drinking tonight? If you have, I’ll stop posting and maybe we can continue tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/114 "2013-03-23T03:23:40Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > Why do you keep making non-sequitors like this? Please don’t take offense to this question, but have you been drinking tonight? If you have, I’ll stop posting and maybe we can continue tomorrow. It’s not a non-sequitur. You offered the fact that the officers left without evidence as support for your statement that a search did not occur. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/115 "2013-03-23T03:26:33Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > I posted a quote from the article that proves my position. > > You’re not going to tell me where you obtained that definition, are you? [Here](http://law.yourdictionary.com/search). Would you like 50 other cites? ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/116 "2013-03-23T03:42:19Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > That’s retarded. Children are not responsible enough to use guns. No, your stance is retarded. :dubious: Children have been using (after having been properly trained in the use and handling of) guns responsibly, since the inception of this country. And are\*\*\* still doing so\*\*\*. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/117 "2013-03-23T03:43:22Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > You offered the fact that the officers left without evidence as support for your statement that a search did not occur. No. Moore said the police left “empty handed and seeing nothing” because he did not allow a search to take place. More evidence for you: > [@](#): > > I walk in my house and hand the phone to the first cop I see. Then direct all of em outside. If it any point a search had taken place, it would have been mentioned in the story. You seem to know that as you’re hanging your hat on a definition for what a police search is that you keep ignoring a request of validation for. Where did you obtain that definition of what constitutes a police search? On preview: > [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > [Here](http://law.yourdictionary.com/search). > > Would you like 50 other cites? No, one would be fine. One that actually backs up your claim, that is. A “police examination” never took place. So, where did you get the definition you first posted? Please answer this. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/118 "2013-03-23T03:47:01Z")
They examined his house for firearms, and wanted to extend the search to the inside of his safe. How do you think they found the safe? My cite backs me up completely. Please offer evidence for your claim. I’ve asked multiple times, and you’ve yet to even try. ---
**Author:** ![MuleSkinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@MuleSkinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MuleSkinner)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/119 "2013-03-23T03:58:18Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > They examined his house for firearms Cite, please. > [@](#): > > and wanted to extend the search to the inside of his safe. How do you think they found the safe? They found a safe? Cite, please. In case you cite that the police make mention of a safe, understand that that is not evidence that they “found” anything. Moore could have volunteered information about there being a safe or his wife could have and that wasn’t mentioned in the account. There was no search as there not having been one is one of Moore’s biggest bragging points. > [@](#): > > (bolding mine) Please offer evidence for your claim. I’ve asked multiple times, and **you’ve yet to even try.** This keeps getting harder to buy. So, where did you get the definition you first posted for what constitutes a police search? Please answer this. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429/120 "2013-03-23T03:58:36Z")
> [@MuleSkinner](#): > > There was no search so there was no “warrantless search.” there was a search according to the article and it was stopped with a phone call to a lawyer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pic-of-kid-w-his-22-rifle-posted-on-fb-child-services-cops-show-up-demanding-to-search-house/653429.md?page=7)