# "Picard to Commander Data..." - is there a delay that is unaccounted for? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523 "2003-09-19T02:21:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/21 "2003-09-19T07:02:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Under similar circumstances, MODERN computers, whose processing power hasn’t advanced to the point where they need to invent a whole new unit to measure it, can send a message from one person to another in no time at all No, that’s still not it. Consider: Picard starts saying “Picard to Riker”. It takes him, say a second to say that. As soon as he says “Riker”, the computer starts thinking. A nanosecond after he says Riker, the signal goes to Riker’s com. Then, Riker’s com echos “Picard to Riker”, at the same speed that Picard said it. So that’s another second. Then, Riker, with his Starfleet-trained reflexes, answers immediately “Riker here”. But Riker can’t answer until at least a second after Picard says “Riker”. No matter how fast the computer is at routing the connection, it still has to spend a full second echoing Picard’s call. It can’t speed that up, or Riker wouldn’t be able to understand it. And yet this isn’t what we see. We see Picard saying “Picard to Riker”, and hear Riker answer immediately. The only logical conclusion is the one that **BoringDad** already came to. Which means that things get pretty noisy on that ship, for non-officers. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Dracul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/50afbb/32.png) [@Vlad\_Dracul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Dracul)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/22 "2003-09-19T07:12:14Z")
Also, remember that there’s usually a cut: we see Picard in location A, then we cut to Data in location B. For all we know, it could actually go like this: Picard: “Picard to Data, it’s time to reverse polarity again!” (Picard waits a few seconds, while computer figures out the routing of the call, makes Data’s badge say “Picard to Data”, Data hits badge, badge goes on to say “It’s time to reverse polarity again”, computer routes Data’s response back to Picard, conversation continues.) We don’t see Picard waiting, because we’re watching Data. The computer is apparently enforcing some sort of official Starfleet com protocol, and probably editing out bad language and sexual references while it’s at it. Since EVERYTHING on Trek is adjustable, re-tunable, re-routable, and otherwise fluid, there are probably 47 different com options that have to be cycled through, and not everybody is always set to the same ones. It’s technology so advanced, you’re lucky it works at all! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/23 "2003-09-19T07:22:29Z")
The comm badges have itty bitty key pads on them. Picard enters Data name, Data’s description and location and Picard’s 300 digit PIN when he wants to talk to Data. Saying “Picard to Commander Data” is just protocol. You don’t see him entering it because people in the future type _really_ fast. Remember Scotty on the keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/24 "2003-09-19T10:33:42Z")
From the ST:TNG Tech Manual, supplied by a Trekker friend of mine: > [@](#): > > The AI routines in the computer listen for intraship calls, perform analyses on the message opening content, attempt to locate the message recipient, and then activate the audio speakers at the recipient’s location. > > During the initial message routeing, there may be a slight processing delay until the computer has heard the entire name of the recipient and located same. From that point on, all transmissions are realtime. > > The channel may be actively closed with the word “out,” which will be detected in context by the computer. (If neither end formally ends the communication, and there are no contextual clues to keep the line open, the computer will continue listening for ten seconds, then close the line.) I guess it doesn’t so much explain as describe. Hmm. You know, I always wonder why it is that on TV when someone dials a number on the phone, it gets picked up at the other end as soon as they’ve stoopped pressing the last button. Same thing as this, really. TV conceit. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/25 "2003-09-19T10:51:06Z")
Actually, what bugs me more about the Next Generation one-touch communicators is that the user has no means of choosing channels or frequencies, as the original series guys occasionally did. Further, you could use the old communicators to locate each other, using some kind of direction-finding, which certainly would have come in handy during a few episodes of nextgen. As for the specific issue, I can imagine your intitial “Picard to Crusher” message is held in a buffer for the microsecond it takes the computer to locate the recipient, then played for them. Their response and all subsequent conversation is real-time. In any event, _Star Trek_ was never really a good indicator of practical futuristic tech, nor did it try to be. Contrast this to, say, _Aliens_ where the pulse-rifles actually look realistic _and_ cool (and quite similar, in fact, to the Army prototype OICW rifle, sketches of which only became available a decade after the film). I _really_ want one of those handheld acetelyne torches. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/26 "2003-09-19T13:12:35Z")
_The Star Trek Encyclopedia_, under **combadge** , states that combadges transmit via a subspace field which is what also enables location for transporter and emergency yada yada. It also says that it transmits a beacon should it become damaged. Now, using subspace could explain the time lag nonexistance. If t transmit FTL, and the computer is fast enough, then the message can be relayed to only the wanted person. The sentience and prescience come to play in the combadge of Riker. In all 7 seasons, you never knew if he was going to answer (or initiate a call) by tapping his combadge first, or just speaking into the air. The communications systems knew! As for the subspace field, remember that in TOS _A Piece of the Action_, it was established that communicators, transporting, and warp drive were all part of the same basic technology. Hope these real-ish answers help. Remember, we’re dealing with a TV show, not science facts. You should really just relax. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/27 "2003-09-19T13:27:30Z")
Slight hijack - why is it “Picard to Data” instead of “Data, this is Picard”? Is that proper American radio protocol? ---
**Author:** ![Donut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Donut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donut)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/28 "2003-09-19T13:32:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Vlad Dracul_ > Also, remember that there’s usually a cut: we see Picard in location A, then we cut to Data in location B. Of course, that’s only usually. There’s more than a few occasions where the camera stays on Picard and we hear Geordi reply instantly (for some reason it always seems to be Geordi–maybe they didn’t like shooting on the engine room set). I’m definitely leaning towards TV conceit. The show certainly gives the impression that it’s not a ship-wide comunication, even if this is never explicitly mentioned. We never, for instance, hear “Picard to Riker” unless Picard or Riker are present. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/29 "2003-09-19T13:37:23Z")
Because, Alessan, that would make sense, and facilitate this whole message transaction process. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/30 "2003-09-19T15:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*Slight hijack - why is it “Picard to Data” instead of “Data, this is Picard”? Is that proper American radio protocol? \*\* Appropriate American (actually, NATO) protocol is “Picard, this is Data” for the first transmission in a series to another callsign. If the conversation continues you can just use your own callsign. Each transmission should end with “over,” and the transmission that ends the series ends with “out.” Ergo: DATA: Picard, this is Data, over. PICARD: Picard, over. (acknowledging he hears Data) DATA: Data, I have really weird looking eyes, over. PICARD: Picard, roger. Your skin and your slicky hair is creepy too, over. DATA: Data, but I did Tasha Yar, over. PICARD: Picard. Roger, that rocks, over. DATA: Data, send me the pictures, out. PICARD: Picard, roger, out. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/31 "2003-09-19T15:44:56Z")
Thanks. “Picard, this is Data” is IDF protocol, too; that’s why I asked. It’s far more practical that way - you’re not always focused on your radio, and if someone said “Rickjay to Alessan” I’d probably go: “Huh!? Yes! Wait, who just called me?”. Especially during night shifts. And Picard in particular shouldn’t go around criticizing other people’s eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/32 "2003-09-19T16:18:44Z")
“Say again, all after ‘incinerators’… _AAAAAHHHH!!_…” ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/33 "2003-09-19T22:53:37Z")
As an EMT in the Northeast US, we always did it “Unit 12 to Base” rather like the show. Never did you hear “Base, this is Unit 12”. So there are some protocols that the show mirrors. Although this is not, as others point out, the way the military does it. Minor point, I realize. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/34 "2003-09-20T00:34:56Z")
> [@](#): > > But Riker can’t answer until at least a second after Picard says “Riker”. No matter how fast the computer is at routing the connection, it still has to spend a full second echoing Picard’s call. It can’t speed that up, or Riker wouldn’t be able to understand it. Not nessisarily. Riker already knows he’s Riker, so he doesn’t have to hear the “to Riker” part. As soon as his comunicator tells him “Picard” that’s all he needs to respond. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/35 "2003-09-20T00:38:32Z")
Plus, Each person has little physiological changes in most things. Maybe the computer can already analyze who the Captain is planning before he gets to the last word, beeps Riker and says “Picard” while Picard is saying “to Riker” ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/36 "2003-09-20T01:23:21Z")
Now, I’d rather eat _gagh_ than consider something I saw on Voyager to be the answer to a Treknology question… But I do recall an episode of Voyager where we see Kim tap his combadge to whisper a message to Tuvok who was only standing on the other side of the bridge. Both characters are on screen at the same time, and there wasn’t any delay. And since Kim was whispering to Tuvok, he mustn’t have been worried that anyone else would hear any part of the conversation. Two possibilities. Either the “Kim to Tuvok” message was been sent a second or two back in time so that it arrived at Tuvok’s communicator at the same instant that Kim spoke it. Or perhaps the combadges can see a few seconds into the future to know what communications channel to open, and when. Sort of like the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Happy Vertical People Transporters, the elevators that see into the future just far enough to know what floor to be on to pick you up before you even know you want an elevator. [sub]that’s my theory and I’m stickin’ to it[/sub] 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/37 "2003-09-20T01:31:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolfman \* > \*\*Not nessisarily. Riker already knows he’s Riker, so he doesn’t have to hear the “to Riker” part. As soon as his comunicator tells him “Picard” that’s all he needs to respond. \*\* Yeah, but we’ve always seen, onscreen, that the person being paged both hears the “Picard to Riker,” _and_ waits for the page to play out entirely before responding. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/38 "2003-09-20T05:08:50Z")
I always figured that each crewmemeber had a specific spot on the combadge so that when he want LaForge, he would hit the LaForge spot. In fact, there’s an entire course at Star Fleet Academy on how to use these without looking. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/39 "2003-09-20T07:36:28Z")
Ooo, I want to hit the Crusher spot. Oo baby. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523/40 "2003-09-20T07:53:32Z")
I like the theory that it’s broadcasted to everyone. In fact, that’s one of many reasons why TOS rules - When they were on the bridge, you could hear com-line chatter in the background, supposedly coming from various places on the ship, similar to the background chatter you hear on a police radio. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/picard-to-commander-data-is-there-a-delay-that-is-unaccounted-for/202523.md?page=3)