# Pickup trucks and culture. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410 "2003-06-30T19:32:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CaptainHenreh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b782af/32.png) [@CaptainHenreh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptainHenreh)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/21 "2003-07-01T15:39:33Z")
Hey let’s not forget the Brat. And the new Brat. I mean, Baja. Hooray for subaru! ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/22 "2003-07-01T15:51:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > Without seeing the ones you’re talking about, I’d wager they were heavily modified through homemade or custom bodywork, which was very common with Model Ts. Most likely, the cabin was shortened, and a wooden tray was bolted on. Of course, modern aluminium tray equivalents are still called utes or pickups, but with early 20th C. cars being heavier and taller, and the trucks being small, there is bound to be confusion. To this end, **I’d consider a pickup to be a factory built car-sized vehicle with seamless panelwork all the way along the side.** > > I’m standing by the Melbourne ute being the first. 🙂 Emphasis mine. There’s the rub, we 'murricans think of unit body cars like the Chevy El Camino, Ford Ranchero, Subaru Brat, VW truck and others of those ilk to be pseudo trucks at best. Real pickup trucks have a separate bed to allow for frame flex under heavy loads even if the bed follows the same body controus as the cab. Having separate bodyworks allows for alternate style beds such as the stepdise which was very popular here as well as utility beds like stakesides and tool boxes. I live in Arizona which has the same kind of “pickup culture” as Texas so I think the OP would agree with my definition. In any event the early model T trucks needed no body modification as they used the same body as the two seat runabout. I’m still looking for better cites but they were offered as a cab and chassis (as is done today so the owner can add a third party bed) and pickup models in the early teens and I found a list of pickup bed part numbers for 1924. Unfortunately the only online reference I can find is for an authorized Franklin Mint model but the 1913 Model T pickup arguably fits your definition of a pickup box that is integrated into the cab. [http://www.cellinifinegifts.com/fm\_1913fordmodeltpickup.htm](http://www.cellinifinegifts.com/fm_1913fordmodeltpickup.htm) Trucks are small? Aluminum? Trucks are made of **steel**. Things must have changed a lot since I was last in Perth. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/23 "2003-07-01T17:50:06Z")
Update: The helpful mavens of the Model T forum tell me the first complete factory [pickup](http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/pix/25pu.jpg) was the 1925 roaster model. Not as early as I thought for a completely factory model with bed but well before '32. [1925 models](http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1925.htm) ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/24 "2003-07-01T23:15:15Z")
Interesting stuff. Thanks **Padeye**. Y’see the “first ever was in Australia” thing is one of those little factoids every Aussie schoolkid just _knows_ and the likes of Ford Australia (ironically with a US parent company) have been eager to jump on the bandwagon (the first bandwagown, which was built… 😃 ). Now, the cites you provide seem pretty damn solid, and I’ve got a mind to start sending emails off to Ford Australia, motoring magazines, et cetera, and start stirring the pot a bit… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/25 "2003-07-01T23:38:36Z")
In Australia trucks are big commercial vehicles, that you move furniture in. Look at [url = [http://www.murphy.com.au/commercial.htm](http://www.murphy.com.au/commercial.htm)]this car and truck rental site. The ute is at the top, similar to a US pickup truck, followed by a van and a then bunch of trucks (including large vans). Point is if you say truck in Australia, people dont think of utes, they think of the 1.5 tonne+ vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/26 "2003-07-02T05:52:42Z")
**Monty** - Hmmmm… I was told that, and it made a lot of sense. I’m surprised that the CHP would be opposed. They don’t seem to be fighting other things that are hard to enforce. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/27 "2003-07-02T17:34:58Z")
Well considering how different the critters are down under from everywhere else in the world I’m not suprised our taxonomy of trucks doesn’t match up. FWIW what Nissan and others call a ton truck we call a half ton in the US. Gross weight will be around 6,000lb or around 2,700kg for y’all of the metric pursuasion. Wheels are usually 15" but some Dodges have 16" wheels and with five lugs though some Chevys have six. A three quarter ton truck has a gross about two thousand pounds more but there’s a lot of variety here. Wheels are normally 16" with eight lugs and axles and frames are heavier. Some three quarter tons trucks will have floating axles but most don’t. A floating axle is where the driving shaft inside the live axle doesn’t have any weight load. If the axle shaft were to break inside the wheel would still be fully supported by the bearing. A ton truck has bigger gross weight and always has full floating drive axles. They may also come with dual rear wheels from the factory. Aftermarket duelly kits are available even for mini trucks. Wheels are 16" except for a few 16.5" split rims (they require inner tubes) on some Dodges. Back to the OP I think the tuck culture is uniquely North American. A lot of us in the wes think of trucks as normal personal vehicles. I drive a half ton Dodge and my wife drives a half ton Ford with an extended cab. We both see the practical side of having one regular four door passenger vehicle but nether wants to give up the utility of our trucks. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410/28 "2003-07-03T15:52:02Z")
Dodge USA built a ute-style miniature pickup, based on Omni front-drive mechanicals, in the early eighties: the [Rampage](http://home.earthlink.net/~sketchman/) . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pickup-trucks-and-culture/185410.md?page=1)