# Pictchfork's Top 500 Tracks of the 2000s **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966 "2009-08-27T22:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/41 "2009-08-29T14:22:33Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Only impressive in that it’s able to cater to the lowest common denominator. Stuff that “everyone can agree on” is rarely of any genuine quality. Stuff that everyone CAN’T agree on is also rarely of any genuine quality. Sturgeon’s Law always applies whether music has crossover appeal or not. So that point is really quite irrelevant. Sure, a lot of widely popular stuff is shit, like Nickleback. But are you gonna tell me the Beatles sucked? Elvis? Stevie Wonder? All are noted for bringing different styles of music into wide acclaim. If you’re telling me Stevie Wonder wasn’t of genuine quality, friend, we’re gonna have to throw some hands. Obviously YMMV, but in my opinion OutKast is the most talented and original musical act of the last ten years and “Hey Ya!” is the best track. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/42 "2009-08-29T14:51:41Z")
> [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > Man, 2004 is on the phone…😉 > > What bothers me is where it’s actually going right **now** , which seems to be the embrace of this absolutely ridiculous, compressed hype and disposal cycle. Bands are being hyped waaaaaaay up before they’ve even had the chance to pay their dues or even evolve and mature naturally - [literally getting signed off of myspace demos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Castles_(band)#cite_note-Plan-10) - and then there’s an immediate backlash when they go on to make bad records (what do you expect of a band [put in the studio with Bernard Butler to make a mega-hyped debut full-length mere months after forming?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Kids)) and have [on-stage meltdowns](http://stereogum.com/archives/wavves-meltdown-in-spain_071792.html) because they’ve never even done a shitty cross-country basement/bedroom show tour and suddenly they’re in another country playing in front of 500,000 people and don’t know how to handle it. That is, when they’re not [throwing tantrums](http://www.thetripwire.com/news/2009/04/15/crystal-castles-leave-fans-hanging-cancel-dallas-show-amid-controversy-get-called-prima-donnas/) and [refusing to play in the first place.](http://pitchfork.com/news/35474-wavves-cancels-european-tour/) > > What a mess. As someone who works in the industry, this has it closest to why Pitchfork just isn’t worth paying attention to anymore. I mean, the last three days the “Best New Music” were three Radiohead re-releases, all with perfect scores. That’s fucking bullshit. Indie somehow became really stratified over the past few years through CMJ, Pitchfork, and all the various hype machines like Sunday AAM and Terrorbird. Animal Collective, on their last album, were asking for a guarantee of $25k, where the album before they were only asking for $5k. A band we booked last October for $500, who has released no new albums and only toured moderately since that time, now wants over $2k. Trust me, great indie is out there - [Helado Negro](http://www.myspace.com/lamuerteblancaconjunto) and [Desolation Wilderness](http://www.myspace.com/desolationwilderness) for example - but they get only all right reviews on Pitchfork because there’s no pressure to do otherwise. And that Top Whatever has solidified my opinion of those assholes. None of the top 20 are really what I’d consider indie-indie anymore, which is ridiculous. Microphones, Sunset Rubdown, the first Dodo release, etc are all fucking better than “Get Your Freak On”. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/43 "2009-08-29T15:57:03Z")
> [@ZebraShaSha](#): > > And that Top Whatever has solidified my opinion of those assholes. None of the top 20 are really what I’d consider indie-indie anymore, which is ridiculous. Microphones, Sunset Rubdown, the first Dodo release, etc are all fucking better than “Get Your Freak On”. I understand most of your criticism of Pitchfork, but why does it matter that most of the top 20 are not “indie-indie?” The list is the Top 500 Tracks of the 2000s, not the top indie tracks. There’s a bunch of songs on the whole list from mainstream artists. Anyway, it seems like an interesting list. Lots of stuff I like, lots of stuff I need to check out, and some stuff that I’m mystified why it’s on there. If anyone wants to see how cool they are, there’s a checklist [here](http://blog.masslive.com/linkfarm/2009/08/the_pitchfork_500_coolometer.html) with all the songs listed. I’m familiar with 155 of the songs, making me 31.00% cool. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/44 "2009-08-29T17:30:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I understand most of your criticism of Pitchfork, but why does it matter that most of the top 20 are not “indie-indie?” The list is the Top 500 Tracks of the 2000s, not the top indie tracks. There’s a bunch of songs on the whole list from mainstream artists. > > … I guess it comes down to what “Top Tracks” means. If we understand it to be “most played” or “most played over the widest audience” then I could sort of see justification for their list. But this has truly been the decade of indie music, in almost every sense the independent music scene has destroyed the mainstream in innovation, hooks, diversity, whatever - all things I think should be factored into a judgment of “Top Tracks” For instance, JZ’s _99 Problems._ The song itself is great, but DJ Danger Mouse’s remix makes it a work of art - why not include that version and recognize both artists for what they did? Or take _My Girls_ by Animal Collective. That album was the point of departure, where Animal Collective no longer gave a shit about the indie-indie world that supported them all along. And _My Girls_ is a banal, insipid song with no repeat value. Compare it to _For Reverend Green_ or Panda Bear’s _Bros_ and it’s no contest. So why go with the pop song when the indie-indie songs are so much better? I mean, I can understand their list to a large degree: it’s all bands they have featured and fawned over for the past 10 years. But truly amazing songs/bands are all the way up in the 200’s and 300’s, while the mainstream pop crowds out the top 20, which makes no sense to me. I will reluctantly agree that Outkast and Gnarles Barkely should be there for crossover appeal, but no fucking way “Get Your Freak On” should ever take out Microphones, Panda Bear, The Roots, Talib Kweli, Modest Mouse, etc. (Not to mention the almost complete lack of backpackers on the list: No J Dilla, Prefuse 73, Illogic, DJ Zeph, whatever, which is bullshit plain and simple.) ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/45 "2009-08-30T06:44:16Z")
> [@ZebraShaSha](#): > > I mean, I can understand their list to a large degree: it’s all bands they have featured and fawned over for the past 10 years. But truly amazing songs/bands are all the way up in the 200’s and 300’s, while the mainstream pop crowds out the top 20, which makes no sense to me. I think that maybe that the people who put together the list have different tastes than you. They feel that the bands they loved over the past decade have produced the best songs of the past decade. Imagine that. My favorite tracks are all indie-indie-indie. One is even indie-indie-indie-indie. ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/46 "2009-08-30T12:30:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > If anyone wants to see how cool they are, there’s a checklist [here](http://blog.masslive.com/linkfarm/2009/08/the_pitchfork_500_coolometer.html) with all the songs listed. I’m familiar with 155 of the songs, making me 31.00% cool. “You are familiar with 19 out of 500 songs for a score of 3.80% cool”. ☹ No Tool? No System of a Down? No Norah Jones? No Metric? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/47 "2009-08-30T15:12:11Z")
> [@gladtobeblazed](#): > > No Tool? No System of a Down? No Norah Jones? No Metric? :dubious: No Guster No MC Lars No Mika No Rilo Kiley No Longwinters No Tegan and Sara Very very :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/48 "2009-08-30T21:24:06Z")
I’m 14.4% cool. Though I don’t think familiarity alone should be enough to calculate “cool”. A “cool” rating would need to be weighted so that it gave more “cool” points relative to the obscurity of the band and song. There are probably more songs that I know of, or have heard, even some that I probably recognized, but if I couldn’t think of the tune off the top of my head, I didn’t count. There were more mainstream songs than I expected to see, and when they appeared, they were ranked higher than I expected. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/49 "2009-08-30T23:00:43Z")
I only looked at the top 20, but if it’s representative of the other 480 songs, it’s an instant winner for the Worst List of Things of the 2000s. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/50 "2009-08-30T23:07:24Z")
I’ve only just had a look at the Top Twenty and it’s fairly impressive. G’wan the pitchfork! ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966/51 "2009-08-31T00:59:58Z")
Are “tracks” different than songs? Because I wouldn’t have believed Pitchfork would ignore Tom Waits in a list of the best songs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pictchforks-top-500-tracks-of-the-2000s/507966.md?page=2)