Pictures with messages which when reversed reveal sexism.

[Spice_Weasel]

@tullsterx

All good points. And if more people felt and expressed those thoughts, there would be less sexism in games and other media.

Marvel has actually been pretty good about that stuff. And I’m not a total tightass about comic book hero women wearing sexy clothes, I just want it to have character relevance. Emma Frost makes perfect sense to me. The way she dresses is a direct expression of who she is as a person. She-Hulk can dress business-like or casually sexy depending on her mood, and that is totally relevant to her personality. Psylocke makes no sense to me. She has a pretty modest personality relative to Emma Frost, I don’t see her as the sort of person who would dress the way she does. She started out as a straight-laced English woman and I think it’s when she became Asian (sigh. comic books) that they made the costume change. Total fan service, no character relevance.

I was quite pleased with the new run of X-Men Volume 4 and all the costume changes they made for the all-woman team. Smart, sexy, character appropriate, and in no way over the top or pandering.

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Jimmy_Chitwood

Gotcha; thanks. What I think is that with respect to Robot Arm’s objection to the commentary about “you go, girls” vs. a hypothetical “you go, boys,” the distinctions between '08 and '12 and '16 and '20 aren’t that important; what’s important is the distinction between those years and, say, 1956 (when there were 245 US men and 41 US women). Or 1972 (316/84) or 1988 (332/195).

It seems clear to me that the commentator meant to indicate that having so many US women participating this year is a good sign because it is, as Peremensoe said, another data point in a progression from something less good toward something better. I think it’s more or less equally as relevant and noteworthy in 2016 as it was in 2012 that this is where we are, given where we were.

He’s right that celebrating having more male competitors than female would not be taken the same way. It’s my opinion that it’s really obvious and acceptable why that’s the case.

I’m with you. Still, as far as I can tell even in '88 the Olympics just plain didn’t offer a women’s version of, say, boxing, or weightlifting; or the hammer throw, or the pole vault; or fencing with a sabre, or an épée; women couldn’t play soccer, or run in the steeplechase, or compete in the triple jump – and so I figure that wasn’t really on Team USA; it was on the IOC.

[Quartz]

@Robot_Arm

Not a picture, but as I was watching the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics a few days ago, one of the commentators mentioned that the U.S. team had more women than men.[sup]*[/sup] This was accompanied by an enthusiastic “you go, girls!” I don’t think that message would have been as well received if the genders were reversed.

That’s a good one.

@Velocity

I believe there is a photo meme of the quote attributed to Marilyn Monroe: “If you can’t handle me at my worst, you don’t deserve me at my best.”
Now, if I’m not mistaken, this saying is *not *something Monroe actually said, and it has been mis-quoted - but, it is a message that is shared and posted or forwarded on the Internet, usually by women - and I can only imagine the response by society if a ** man were to say, “If you can’t handle me at my worst, you don’t deserve me at my best.”

And another.

@Fotheringay-Phipps

But the disproportionality there has a much different basis than might appear at first glance.

And the disproportionality is irrelevant here. What is relevant is the sexism revealed by reversing the image.

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

How about that famous picture of a gingerbread cookie? “The perfect man: he’s quiet, he’s sweet, and if he gives you any grief, you can bite his head off.”

Not one with which I’m familiar but again good.

@Maggie_the_Ocelot

http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

The idea is: redraw pictures of women from comics using Hawkeye instead, in the same pose, to reveal how impractical, contorted, and uncomfortable those poses/outfits are.

And that’s a good one too.

[spingag48]

Quartz there are two groups that you can disparage at will. White men and Christians.
~Cheers~

[Turpentine]

Quartz, it looks like you only like the examples that suggest men are being discriminated against.

I liked Spice Weasel’s examples of how women are sexualized in comic books versus men.

I once saw this art exhibit where mannequins were dressed in typical video game armor, only gender swapped. The women had practical cloaks and armor while the men were nearly naked, except for these ridiculous codpieces. Pretty hilarious.

How 'bout where people spend a lot of time making fun of Hillary Clinton’s pantsuits? Men wear pantsuits all the time and nobody ridicules them.

[Quartz]

@Turpentine

Quartz, it looks like you only like the examples that suggest men are being discriminated against.

Umm… perhaps you missed my appreciation of the Hawkeye Initiative?

[Mops]

@Jimmy_Chitwood

Gotcha; thanks. What I think is that with respect to Robot Arm’s objection to the commentary about “you go, girls” vs. a hypothetical “you go, boys,” the distinctions between '08 and '12 and '16 and '20 aren’t that important; what’s important is the distinction between those years and, say, 1956 (when there were 245 US men and 41 US women). Or 1972 (316/84) or 1988 (332/195).

It seems clear to me that the commentator meant to indicate that having so many US women participating this year is a good sign because it is, as Peremensoe said, another data point in a progression from something less good toward something better. I think it’s more or less equally as relevant and noteworthy in 2016 as it was in 2012 that this is where we are, given where we were.

He’s right that celebrating having more male competitors than female would not be taken the same way. It’s my opinion that it’s really obvious and acceptable why that’s the case.

In this specific case (Olympics participation) I’d question whether more women from the US competing is in fact progress for female athletes at all. If I rightly recollect except for the equestrian events all competitions are either separate men’s/womens’ competitions or mixed competions (tennis; one class in sailing) so more US women competing does not mean that they have outcompeted US men in qualifiying for the Olympics, but rather women from other nations.

[Turpentine]

@Quartz

Umm… perhaps you missed my appreciation of the Hawkeye Initiative?

Yeah, I realized after I posted that that I missed that one. Whoops.

Maybe I can come up with more that you like.

When Katinka Hosszu broke the world record the other night, the commentator said her husband was the man responsible for the achievement. You don’t hear “The fiance of Miss California 2010 just won a medal” when Michael Phelps is shown.

Or when Gillian Anderson was offered less money than David Duchovny for the new X-Files because she isn’t as pretty anymore. Men don’t seem to get pay cuts for aging.

Or read some of those reviews of the new Ghostbusters movie, how many MRA Neckbeards are whining and crying over how the receptionist is a handsome but dumb man and how sexist that is. How many dumb but beautiful bimbos have appeared in all movies across all time? Too numerous to count.

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

@Mops

In this specific case (Olympics participation) I’d question whether more women from the US competing is in fact progress for female athletes at all. If I rightly recollect except for the equestrian events all competitions are either separate men’s/womens’ competitions or mixed competions (tennis; one class in sailing) so more US women competing does not mean that they have outcompeted US men in qualifiying for the Olympics, but rather women from other nations.

I don’t think anyone thought otherwise.

In 1912 there were no female competitors, and in 1920 there were 14, and now there are how many there are. I expect the female competitors see that as progress. And I don’t think the fact that the United States was the nation that they were talking about means that it has to be confined to the United States; more women overall is still a “you go,” as far as I can tell.

[Velocity]

Society often splits on such issues. You have one side that wants everyone to be treated as if everyone’s already equal, and you have another side that wants everyone to be treated as if everyone’s still unequal.

[Peremensoe]

For those reflecting on the question of women’s progress in the context of Olympic competition, “Is some Olympic commentary sexist?”

[Nava]

@Spice_Weasel

As a gamer, my biggest pet peeve is body armor on women.

C’mon, everybody knows that stiletto go-go-boots are a great complement to that two-handed sword bigger and wider than the chick wielding it!

I generally Alien Legion from the first time I laid hands on it, but it did improve when Tamara lost the stupid high heels (no stupidly big swords to be found anywhere there, although there are some stupidly big phasers).

[Nava]

I generally liked… stupid word went on vacation :mad:

[Soylent_Juicy]

There’s a picture floating around right now of a happy-looking little boy sitting in a gym surrounded by pretty, scantily-clad women looking adoringly at him. The caption is something like “Now imagine if that was a little girl surrounded by guys.”

[Grrr]

@Soylent_Juicy

There’s a picture floating around right now of a happy-looking little boy sitting in a gym surrounded by pretty, scantily-clad women looking adoringly at him. The caption is something like “Now imagine if that was a little girl surrounded by guys.”

Twilight moms

[Ludovic]

This picture has tones of that, but it’s more creepy in a religious way than pervy.

[Quartz]

@Turpentine

Or read some of those reviews of the new Ghostbusters movie, how many MRA Neckbeards are whining and crying over how the receptionist is a handsome but dumb man and how sexist that is. How many dumb but beautiful bimbos have appeared in all movies across all time? Too numerous to count.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

[Peremensoe]

@Quartz

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

You really think the bit in the new movie is a “wrong”? Not, maybe, just a joke about the long-established trope?

[Fuzzy_Dunlop]

@Flyer

Please explain what, exactly, it is about the concept of self-defense that you find creepy.

I don’t have anything against self-defense. I have a problem with the creepy tone of the example Quartz posted. I agree that something like Spice Weasel posted, (“Teach your daughters (or sons) to recognize the warning signs of a violent relationship”) lacks the creepiness and is appropriate when applied to either sex.

Likewise, the actual example is creepy when applied to either sex.

So in this case, there’s no revealed sexism. It’s equally creepy both ways.

[Miller]

@Quartz

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Can you describe the nature of the specific wrong represented by Chris Hemsworth’s character in the film?