No it isn’t bullshit, the discrepancy is in the way data is collected. The US data is an estimate of the crime reported to the police, whereas the UK data is the the amount of crime reported to the Crime Survey, the number of crimes reported to the police in the UK is less than half of that.
Next you have to look at the catergorisation of violent crime. In the UK violent crime is catergorised much more broadly than the USA and includes offences which make up a substantial percentage (possibly 50% as a rough guesstimate) which would not be catergorised as violent crime by the US survey. You also have to look at things such as how incidents in which multiple crimes occur are recorded.
Not true. It’s piss easy to get a shotgun if you’re remotely respecatble. If you know the local police well you can get them even with quite “serious” criminal records.
The thing with shotguns is that the police have to have a reason to say you can’t have it (although you do need to give a reason for it, you don’t need to explain it as such, if you get the difference). With rifles etc (I knew a guy who had a tank on his licence) you need to demonstrate a reason. Oh and by the way, outside of Northern Ireland unless you are a super interesting person if you say you want a gun for self defence then bye bye…
Having said that, I say piss easy - but you need a secured gun cabinet and all sorts of other boring things. Can’t just buy one in some sarf londarn hi rise council flat and keep it on the table. Nor can you carry around guns for no reason.
And loads of british people by the way are not exactly totally naive with guns. For example, at school from the age of 14 I had lots of fun with a manual version of the SA80 rifle (UK equivilant of M16) even though I know fuck all about guns.
(to clarify that statement, it’s cause I was a member of the CCF not cause I was some kind of uber teen criminal with access to anything I liked. And now I think of it I think I joined aged 13, but we started on .22s.)
(oh and I’ve now googled it and it turns out they’re giving kids in my position back then semi automatic versions of the SA80, not the fully manual thing I had to keep on stripping and all that shite - which I remember basically nothing of other than the various injuries you could get).
No, both numbers are for police-recorded crime. If you want to provide survey numbers for both countries instead of just spinning uncited cotton candy about how crime in England doesn’t count, you’re welcome to do so.
IN practice the legislation allows the local Chief Constable a lot of discretion (though you can appeal to the Crown Court) and after a few criticisms of Chief Constables for giving out licences to people who it turned out later were a danger to the public, they’re not quite as happy to give them out as they once were.
That may well be the case, but even so it’s still really easy. At least if you live in the country. I don’t know how much detail I should go into cause I don’t want to cause issues, but let’s just say I’m well aware of people with unspent, fairly serious (suspended prison sentence) criminal convictions getting them for very little “justification”.
edit: something also came to my mind as well - I know a VERY serious criminal with a firearms (for US viewers this is much more than shotgun) licence too.
lol - I just googled the things to make sure my recollection was correct - and you can have a shotgun licence at any age, and a rifle licence at any age from 14 upwards. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a way we’re more lenient than the US given how they are about age stuff.
There is no minimum age to fly an aircraft or even have a pilot’s licence either by the way, unlesss that has changed recently.
No they are not. The 2034 figure you quoted comes from a Daily Mail (at that time a very reactionary paper) article from 2009 (1st cite), which was based on the 2008-09 British Crime Survey released at that time. The 2,034 figure is obviously a figure the Daily Mail have calculated themselves from the report as the BCS did not give a figure per 100,000, though in subsequent years they gave the figure per 100,00 for that year as 2,082 (page 39 in the 2nd cite). The slight discrepancy I guess would be from using different total population figures.
The British Crime Survey is literally a survey (read either the 2nd or 3rd cites for methodologies), the number of violent crimes reported to the police is just less than half that number (47% - page 9 3rd cite)
Criminologists usually say that you shouldn’t compare crime statistic for different countries due to the different reporting methods and definitions and instead you should only compare the trends. I think though once you have adjusted for the differences in the reporting methods and the definition of violent crime, it is fair to say that the incident of violent crime in the UK is roughly the same as the USA, it may even be gasp lower (though in practice that would be very difficult to show objectively)
Moral of the story: don’t believe every wingnut you see on TV
That extra legal “protection” happens after the fact.
“Ha! Jokes on HIM! If he kills me and is apprehended and there is enough evidence to charge him and the prosecutor does a good job and the jury is persuaded then he might die by lethal injection in 25-30 years after he exhausts all appeals if he’s still alive and hasn’t been pardoned!”
This reminds me of Mitt Romney’s “unskewed polls.” Yes, once you “adjust for the differences” by wishing the numbers in the direction that supports you, the numbers change. How about that.
If the UK is so crimey, full of stabbings, assaults and other hideous things around every corner, how come we are not complete wusses about it that need guns and various other things (mace etc)?
Why are business insurance rates just for crime (so ignoring the insane american lawsuits for tripping over and so that would otherwise explain differences) so much lower?
The reality is that the UK is very un-crimey indeed. The basic exceptions are scum bag sink estates, and frankly what do you expect the people there to do with their time?
You cannot really have things both ways. Either britons are secretly walking around petrified of crime, americans are complete wusses, or the gun for protection thing is hilarious paranoia.
And this is coming from someone who beleives in laxer gun laws than in the US (but out of principle, not necessity)
No, what I did was to compare the actual police reported figures in the UK as opposed to the BCS figures and only for crimes that are substantially the same as or similar to the four offences that make up the definition of violent crime in the FBI’s Crime in the US report.
Do you understand that the two surveys are not like-for-like?
Spot the commonality: National Health Service, Police Service.
I live in inner London and have never felt threatened, or even that concerned about crime. Someone did once steal the front wheel on my bike but that was party my own fault.
Surely everyone knows crime is a huge statistical game because of the political potential. Consequently media leap on it too, especially the tabloids who have their own agendas.
As best I can see, media create fear where little threat exists.
The UK doesn’t want guns, doesn’t allow guns and, broadly, when there is the suggestion of a gun the police come down like they do in the US if a police officer has been killed.
These data sources are simply not comparable because they do not count the same things. It may well be that Britain is more violent than the US - but the data cited so far is incapable of showing that.
[QUOTE=Wikipedia]
Following the Dunblane massacre, the government passed the Firearms (Amendment) (No. 2) Act 1997, banning private possession of handguns almost completely. Exceptions to the ban include muzzle-loading “black powder” guns,** pistols produced before 1917**, pistols of historical interest (such as pistols used in notable crimes, rare prototypes, unusual serial numbers and so on), starting pistols, pistols that are of particular aesthetic interest (such as engraved or jewelled guns) and shot pistols for pest control.
[/QUOTE]
(bolding added). Does that mean in the UK I can buy a Colt .45 Model 1911 provided that my particular gun was made before 1917? Can I keep ammunition? Loaded magazines? Carry it?