# Pigeons and Doves - Carabou and Raindeer

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [April 8, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159 "2012-04-08T06:27:01Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/1 "2012-04-08T06:27:01Z")

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As I understand it there are no scientific differences between Pigeons and Doves or Carabou and Reindeer.

Both common seemingly different animals.

Are there other examples of this? Is there a name for it?

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**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/2 "2012-04-08T06:38:24Z")

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**[Giraffes](http://www.giraffes.org/species.html)**, there are differences, but somehow, they are alike. I guess it’s about labels.

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**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/3 "2012-04-08T06:44:43Z")

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How are they “seemingly” different? The caribou and reindeer are simply different names for the same animal in different regions seem obvious to me and no more different than elk/moose. And in Norwegian there aren’t even different words for pigeon and dove.

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**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/4 "2012-04-08T06:52:06Z")

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> [@fifty-six](#):
>
> Is there a name for it?

Synonyms.

Another example: maize and corn.

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**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/5 "2012-04-08T07:29:50Z")

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It’s just where systems of categorisation and nomenclature invented by humans are to some greater or lesser extent, arbitrary in terms of how nature has actually happened to organise itself.

Other examples:

Dolphins and whales (the toothed variety)  
Crows and ravens  
Foxes/wolves/dogs/etc  
Pumpkins and squashes

It’s not that there aren’t sensible groupings to be determined, it’s just that the existing common names don’t absolutely represent the groupings.

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**Author:** ![brujaja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@brujaja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brujaja)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/6 "2012-04-08T08:11:18Z")

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The difference between “dove” and “pigeon” is something like the difference between “greenery” and “weeds.”

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**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/7 "2012-04-08T08:30:40Z")

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> [@Giles](#):
>
> Synonyms.
> 
> Another example: maize and corn.

[Corn](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/94/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american) does not necessarily mean maize. It usually means “predominate grain crop of the area”, which might be wheat or oats rather than maize.

This caused me a great deal of confusion when I was younger and read instructions on making “corn dollies” in a book which had been printed in the UK, for a UK readership.

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**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/8 "2012-04-08T08:53:37Z")

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> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#):
>
> [Corn](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/94/how-could-the-romans-use-corn-its-american) does not necessarily mean maize. It usually means “predominate grain crop of the area”, which might be wheat or oats rather than maize.
> 
> This caused me a great deal of confusion when I was younger and read instructions on making “corn dollies” in a book which had been printed in the UK, for a UK readership.

Yes, “corn” has multiple meanings, but one is maize, even when maize is not the predominant grain crop (as in Australia where wheat predominates, but “corn” almost always means maize).

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**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/9 "2012-04-08T08:58:27Z")

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Pigeons and doves are names given to various species within Familoy Columbidae. To the best pf my knowledge there is no taxonomic significance to which species get common names with ‘pigeon’ and which with ‘dove’. One thing I’ve observed is that it’s often though not always true that the slenderer, more gracile birds are termed ‘dove’ while the more robust, ‘fatter’ birds are ‘pigeon’ names. But AFAIK that does not match up with subfamily or even genus groups.

Caribou and reindeer are synonyms for _Rangifer tarandus_. There is a distinction of sorts: _reindeer_ tends to be used of the domesticated animals kept by the Lapps, Santa Claus, etc., while _caribou_ means the wild animal. But this is not always consistent.

Rabbits and hares are another case in point. The two terms are applied iwth abandon to a random set of lagomorphs. Which is a shame, because there used to be a good technical distinction made by the popular names: Hares, generally larger and leaping, bring foprth precocial young, whle smaller hopping rabbits have altricial young. This is what is meant by comments like “The jackrabbit is ‘reallyy’ a hare, while the varying hare is ‘really’ a rabbit.” In this sense it matches taxonomy: all hares in this sense are genus _Lepus_ while the rabbits are members of Family Leporidae that are not in _Lepus_.

One case where popular and scientific groupings match is the waterfowl: All geese are in two genera, _Anser_ and _Branta_, and all swans in _Cygnus_, while all the members of Family Anseridae but those three genera are termed ducks.

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**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/10 "2012-04-08T09:28:03Z")

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Pigeons and doves are names given to various species within Familoy Columbidae. To the best pf my knowledge there is no taxonomic significance to which species get common names with ‘pigeon’ and which with ‘dove’. One thing I’ve observed is that it’s often though not always true that the slenderer, more gracile birds are termed ‘dove’ while the more robust, ‘fatter’ birds are ‘pigeon’ names. But AFAIK that does not match up with subfamily or even genus groups.

Caribou and reindeer are synonyms for _Rangifer tarandus_. There is a distinction of sorts: _reindeer_ tends to be used of the domesticated animals kept by the Lapps, Santa Claus, etc., while _caribou_ means the wild animal. But this is not always consistent.

Rabbits and hares are another case in point. The two terms are applied iwth abandon to a random set of lagomorphs. Which is a shame, because there used to be a good technical distinction made by the popular names: Hares, generally larger and leaping, bring foprth precocial young, whle smaller hopping rabbits have altricial young. This is what is meant by comments like “The jackrabbit is ‘reallyy’ a hare, while the varying hare is ‘really’ a rabbit.” In this sense it matches taxonomy: all hares in this sense are genus _Lepus_ while the rabbits are members of Family Leporidae that are not in _Lepus_.

One case where popular and scientific groupings match is the waterfowl: All geese are in two genera, _Anser_ and _Branta_, and all swans in _Cygnus_, while all the members of Family Anseridae but those three genera are termed ducks.

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**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/11 "2012-04-08T11:15:10Z")

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Also, posts #9 and #10 are basically the same, the distinction between them is purely arbitrary.  
In most cases, post #9 will appear first, so early taxonomists had termed it _Postae Primae_.

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**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/12 "2012-04-08T11:54:16Z")

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[DEL]If by columbid you mean that sweet dove which is the Christian symbol for peace of the soul, and which throughout history has signified love, hope, joy, purity, fidelity and new beginnings, then I praise your _Family Columbidae_, and ask that the songs of every columbid species be heard across the valleys in our land.

But if by columbid you mean that nasty pigeon which defecates on our balconies, annoys us in our recreations, pollutes our cities, is scratching on my rooftop as I write this, and whose very name has become a [metaphor for failure](http://www.getlostmagazine.com/2002/03/pigeons-as-an-embarrassing-metaphor/), then I condemn _Columbidae_ and ask that every species of them be eradicated.[/DEL]

ETA: Sorry; thought we were in Mundane Pointless.

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**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/13 "2012-04-08T12:12:52Z")

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Perhaps the confusion comes from the way pigeons heavily favor their right wings when making flights for sheer display, but when they get down to the business of feeding and mating and raising their squabs, are indistinguishable from any other dove.

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**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/14 "2012-04-08T12:21:04Z")

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```auto

if ( bird.IsWhite() )
{
   if ( bird.IsUsedForCarryingMail() )
   {
      printf( "Pigeon
" );
   }
   else
   {
      assert( bird.IsUsedByMagician() || bird.IsASymbolOfPeace() || bird.SellsScentedSoap() );
      printf( "Dove
" );
   }
}
else
{
   printf( "Pigeon
" );
}

```

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/15 "2012-04-08T12:42:29Z")

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> [@Polycarp](#):
>
> One case where popular and scientific groupings match is the waterfowl: All geese are in two genera, _Anser_ and _Branta_, and all swans in _Cygnus_, while all the members of Family Anseridae but those three genera are termed ducks.

In North America that may be true. For the rest of the world, not even close. There are at least 15 genera that are commonly referred to as geese.

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**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/16 "2012-04-08T15:33:29Z")

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> [@naita](#):
>
> How are they “seemingly” different? The caribou and reindeer are simply different names for the same animal in different regions seem obvious to me and no more different than elk/moose. And in Norwegian there aren’t even different words for pigeon and dove.

Elk and moose are both from the deer family, but nobody would ever mistake one for the other.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/17 "2012-04-08T15:38:44Z")

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> [@Heracles](#):
>
> Also, posts #9 and #10 are basically the same, the distinction between them is purely arbitrary.  
> In most cases, post #9 will appear first, so early taxonomists had termed it _Postae Primae_.

It was either convergent evolution or a _Hiccupus serverae._

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**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/18 "2012-04-08T15:47:06Z")

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> [@Chefguy](#):
>
> Elk and moose are both from the deer family, but nobody would ever mistake one for the other.

I think what he was saying is that what Americans call moose, Europeans call elk. I was watching a nature show recently and the narrator kept saying “elk” for “moose” and I had to look it up to find out.

> [@Mangetout](#):
>
> Foxes/wolves/dogs/etc

Foxes are in a different Genus.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/19 "2012-04-08T15:50:35Z")

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Some examples the OP is interested in are discussed in [this recent thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647563)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159/20 "2012-04-08T16:03:19Z")

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> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I think what he was saying is that what Americans call moose, Europeans call elk. I was watching a nature show recently and the narrator kept saying “elk” for “moose” and I had to look it up to find out.

Indeed. As wikipedia tells us.

> [@](#):
>
> The moose (North America) or Eurasian elk (Europe) (Alces alces) is the largest extant species in the deer family.

The problem is more complicated than caribou / reindeer only because zoologically ignorant English explorers or settlers used the European name elk for the wrong animal.

[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pigeons-and-doves-carabou-and-raindeer/618159.md?page=2)