# Pilot is always commander of the airplane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 23, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171 "2002-08-23T03:31:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/1 "2002-08-23T03:31:30Z")
I learned somewhere that the pilot of a military airplane _is_ the absolute commander of that airplane. Then tonight I read a description of the crew of a wartime B-29 that lists an aircraft commander as well as a pilot (no co-pilot listed). What gives? ---
**Author:** ![Bernard\_Marx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@Bernard\_Marx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bernard_Marx)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/2 "2002-08-23T03:39:03Z")
Not sure about the B-29…I know that in today’s military (well, in the RAN) you can have a tactical commander who “drives” the aircraft (ie tells the pilot where to go and which contacts to prosecute etc), while the pilot (who may be significantly junior to the TACCO, rank-wise) still has the ultimate say in what the aircraft does (he can veto the TACCO’s reccomendations). ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/3 "2002-08-23T05:27:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ringo \* > \*\*I learned somewhere that the pilot of a military airplane _is_ the absolute commander of that airplane. Then tonight I read a description of the crew of a wartime B-29 that lists an aircraft commander as well as a pilot (no co-pilot listed). What gives? \*\* When I was in the military, the pilot was in command of the aircraft irrespective of other ranks, even rated pilots, with one exception. A Command Pilot was always in command of the plane if one was on board. A command pilot is recognized by having a star enclosed in a wreath on the top of the pilot’s wings. The Air Force Chief of Staff is a Command Pilot. So are all lesser ranks these days, down to probably Group Commander or thereabouts. I will add, however, if I were flying a plane with my Group Commander, a pilot, on board and he said, “Do this,” “this” is what I would do whether or not he was a Command Pilot, even though technically I would be within my rights to say, “With respect, Sir, up yours.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/4 "2002-08-23T10:20:15Z")
In my work place we have a person who is commander of the aircraft in a tactical sense, ie in normal operations they decide where to go and what to do. However it is always the aircraft captain’s responsabilty to ensure the safe operation of the aircraft. So if the tactical commander says “lets do this” and the Captain thinks it is unsafe, he/she can just say “no we won’t”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/5 "2002-08-23T11:41:14Z")
Just to cover the civilian rules: > [@](#): > > **Sec. 91.3 - Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.** > > (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. > > (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. > > © Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/6 "2002-08-23T14:58:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skogcat \* > \*\*In my work place we have a person who is commander of the aircraft in a tactical sense, ie in normal operations they decide where to go and what to do. However it is always the aircraft captain’s responsabilty to ensure the safe operation of the aircraft. So if the tactical commander says “lets do this” and the Captain thinks it is unsafe, he/she can just say “no we won’t”. \*\* This is also how it is in the US military (actually, I can only speak for the Navy here). Sometimes the senior pilot is the mission commander; sometimes someone else is. If the senior pilot is not the Mission Commander, he will still have final authority over all things considered “safety of flight” and, of course, all aircraft emergencies. But I’ve never heard or nor seen a non-pilot MC contradict and overrule a pilot when it comes to the mission. The two always work together in brainstorming and coming up with courses of action. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/7 "2002-08-23T18:39:11Z")
On a somewhat related note, is it true that there can only be one Captain on a ship? I don’t mean only one person in command, but only one person of the rank Captain? I heard that the only Captain is the captain of the ship, and all others of that pay grade are called Commandants, which makes sense in that it is bleeding obvious just _who_ is in charge by knowing who is being called Captain. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/8 "2002-08-23T19:18:58Z")
AFAIK, not for the Navy. You can have plenty of people on a ship–especially something like an aircraft carrier–who are ranked Captains. But only one will have that as his title, so to speak. This is where it helps having the term “skipper.” There will always be only one skipper of a ship or squadron. He may or not be an O-6 (Captain), but he’ll be the ultimate guy in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/9 "2002-08-23T19:46:24Z")
flyboy: Sorry, but you’re mistaken on that. All Navy Captains have the title of Captain. Also, there is more than one command embarked on an aircraft carrier. There’s the Air Wing, the Ship’s Company, plus a few others. Those commanding officers aboard who are not actually Captains receive the courtesy title of Captain. “Skipper” is not an official title in the US Navy, although traditionally folks use it. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/10 "2002-08-23T21:13:22Z")
While we’re at it, the space shuttles still have pilots & commanders, just like the Gemini and Apollo programs. But I’ve been unclear on whether shuttles are actually flown by the pilots or the commanders. Are shuttle “pilots” more like engineers? Does the commander drive the ship during some phases (launch, orbit insertion, on orbit, de-orbit, or landing), or what? And, since many shuttle astronauts hold military ranks, how does this effect the chain of command? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/11 "2002-08-23T21:19:20Z")
The space shuttle, like the Gemini and Apollo craft, is flown by computers. I hear the space shuttle guys get to land it, but they’re not really needed. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/12 "2002-08-23T22:23:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flyboy88 \* > \*\*AFAIK, not for the Navy. You can have plenty of people on a ship–especially something like an aircraft carrier–who are ranked Captains. But only one will have that as his title, so to speak. This is where it helps having the term “skipper.” There will always be only one skipper of a ship or squadron. He may or not be an O-6 (Captain), but he’ll be the ultimate guy in charge. \*\* This can get confusing. In the navy “Captain” is both a rank and a title. The individual in command of a ship has the title “Captain” even if he or she has the rank of Petty Officer and is commanding a harbor tugboat. I think. ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/13 "2002-08-24T04:14:21Z")
This is why I wrote “so to speak” in my last post. There is only one “Captain” of the ship, no matter how many other “Captain”-ranked officers are aboard, and no matter how many other commands are aboard. Yes, you’ll have the skippers of the various squadrons and whatnot, but when you refer to the skipper of the boat, you’re referring to one specific individual. Monty, I guess I misspoke. When I said “title,” I meant in terms of a qualification. I hold the rank of LT, but I consider my title to be my warfare qualification (Naval Flight Officer) or the current job I’m doing (e.g., Ops Officer). A Captain may hold that rank, but is not automatically considered to be a skipper or the Captain of a ship. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-is-always-commander-of-the-airplane/125171/14 "2002-08-24T08:24:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheeGrumpy \* > \*\*While we’re at it, the space shuttles still have pilots & commanders, just like the Gemini and Apollo programs. But I’ve been unclear on whether shuttles are actually flown by the pilots or the commanders. Are shuttle “pilots” more like engineers? Does the commander drive the ship during some phases (launch, orbit insertion, on orbit, de-orbit, or landing), or what? > > And, since many shuttle astronauts hold military ranks, how does this effect the chain of command? \*\* NASA has traditionally had “Commanders” and “Pilots”, the former actually doing both. The Pilot title is usually a misnomer, particularly during the Apollo program when it came to the LM that landed on the moon. The “LM Pilot” was really more of a systems manager, and didn’t do any actual flying of the spacecraft. I believe the situation is much the same on the current space shuttle.