# Pilot on a hot mike **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 26, 2021, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792 "2021-03-26T18:16:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/41 "2021-03-27T15:42:29Z")
Going off topic here, but I’d like to learn some basic techniques for arguing Trumpers. I feel I’m pretty well informed, but not confident that I wouldn’t get riled, or go off track. LSLGuy, it’d be great if you could post some basics (not on this thread). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/42 "2021-03-27T16:19:49Z")
> I love how everybody’s just assuming this was a pilot with a hot mic. Happened on the ground frequency at San Jose… this literally could have been anyone from mechanic fixing a radio on test bench to some lunatic in the parking ramp with a handheld transceiver. But nope… all we get is, “OMG!!! Can you believe what that pilot said on the RaDIo??? Pilots aren’t suppose to have any conversations that aren’t flight related during taxi and takeoff! The FAA said so!!! So unprofessional!! They need to hunt them down and fire them immediately!! RhEeeeeeeeee…” Doesn’t matter who was on the frequency - it WAS unprofessional and contrary to FAA regulations. I, too, have never heard anyone but pilots or ATC on the ground control frequency. People like the above are clearly not pilots, or at least not the sort that fly into controlled airports. ATC and pilots have a pretty good idea who is saying what, indeed, if they’re all regulars at the airport the voices will be recognized. Always assume the gun is loaded and the mic is hot. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/43 "2021-03-27T16:46:24Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Really? IANAP, but I listen to those VASAvation videos of ATC chatter, and it’s not uncommon to hear ground vehicles requesting permission to cross runways, or being directed to do a sweep for debris, or aid a stricken airplane. ATC has a number of frequencies to choose from. The one used for ground operations by aircraft can in fact be a different number than the one used for ground operations by ground vehicles. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > According to HuffPo, “coal rolling” = adding excess fuel to a diesel engine (presumably on a jacked-up pickup) so it emits black smoke. > > Sometimes they get carried away. > > (2:51 for the **B** > > **OOM!** ) At least they had plenty of fire extinguishers on hand… > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Should he be fired if he violated an FAA regulation? The link in the OP says the agency is investigating the incident because the pilot or the first officer was holding non-essential communications while flying below 10,000 feet, which breaks the FAA’s [Sterile Cockpit Rule](https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/the-horror-1974-crash-that-led-to-ban-on-cockpit-chitchat/news-story/ceff846e231d53752929998969f913fb). > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > However, are pilots who violate that regulation regularly fired or are they usually disciplined in a less draconian manner? I sure don’t know but I would expect that casual flight crew chatter below 10,000 ft (or whatever) is by itself rarely cause for dismissal. The punishment should be appropriate to the offense. I’m not aware of his employer’s policy on the matter (that is up to Southwest) but the FAA tends to take violations seriously and clogging up frequencies with non-essential chatter can be a safety hazard, which should be taken seriously. I think warnings and fines are a typical penalty, but I’m not an expert in this area as when I was actively flying I didn’t chatter on official frequencies, much less engage in profanity-laced tirades. That’s not to say absolutely every word ever uttered on air is strictly business - at slow times there can be a teeny bit of chatter “Hey, hello Bob, how’s the fishing?”/“Great, landed a couple trout - cleared to land runway 24, have a good day” or “Hey, Broomstick, weren’t you flying a Cessna last week?”/“Yep, but today I rented a Citabria. Request runway 12.” are examples of chatter that’s probably not going to get anyone’s panties in a twist. As long as things are slow. As long as it’s just a few words and not an actual conversation. Profanity not allowed, however. The matter going public just adds fuel to the resulting fire. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/44 "2021-03-27T16:49:38Z")
At big airports it’s common to have airport employees in vehicles driving around the airfield. And talking to ATC for permission to enter or cross runways or taxiways. They don’t sound quite like pilots, but they do know what they’re talking about, know the terminology, and how to use the radios properly. Likewise most air carriers have ground crew authorized to either taxi airplanes or tow them on the taxiways using high speed tugs. Which requires clearance from ATC for those movements. Again professionals, albeit of a different levels, who’re used to talking properly on the radios. Absent any other info, at a big airport any unexpected transmissions heard probably came from a pilot just based on how many airplanes, controllers, tow crews, or airport staff are available on freq at any given moment. Controllers do end up with hot mikes now and again, or they push the wrong button and we get to hear a call they intended to make over their various comm channels to some other controller. It’s a whole different lingo. The key thing here seems to be that the unidentified transmission comes from a voice folks recognized from previous identified transmissions a couple minutes or seconds before. Oops. Busted! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/45 "2021-03-27T18:19:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s not to say absolutely every word ever uttered on air is strictly business - at slow times there can be a teeny bit of chatter “Hey, hello Bob, how’s the fishing?”/“Great, landed a couple trout - cleared to land runway 24, have a good day” or “Hey, Broomstick, weren’t you flying a Cessna last week?”/“Yep, but today I rented a Citabria. Request runway 12.” are examples of chatter that’s probably not going to get anyone’s panties in a twist. As long as things are slow. As long as it’s just a few words and not an actual conversation. I was flying from Dulles Airport to Germany on United several years ago. At the time, they had a channel on their entertainment systems that you could use to listen to the cockpit radio frequency. A few minutes after takeoff, I heard the controller say that they didn’t have a slot for us yet for the route over the Atlantic. Our pilot said “you want me to come back to the airport and shoot some touch-and-gos for practice?” I heard one other passenger laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/46 "2021-03-27T23:32:03Z")
I occasionally see “coal rolling” here in Beijing. Ought to rename the place Newcastle. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/47 "2021-03-29T14:11:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > …That’s not to say absolutely every word ever uttered on air is strictly business - at slow times there can be a teeny bit of chatter “Hey, hello Bob, how’s the fishing?”/“Great, landed a couple trout - cleared to land runway 24, have a good day” or “Hey, Broomstick, weren’t you flying a Cessna last week?”/“Yep, but today I rented a Citabria. Request runway 12.” are examples of chatter that’s probably not going to get anyone’s panties in a twist. As long as things are slow. As long as it’s just a few words and not an actual conversation. > > Profanity not allowed, however. The matter going public just adds fuel to the resulting fire. There is – or was, he’s since retired – an air traffic controller at JFK in New York named “Kennedy Steve” Abraham, who was known for his unflappability and his sense of humor; he once directed a 747 to follow a Cessna 150 and added, “Caution, wake turbulence” (you can almost hear the 747 pilot thinking, “…wait, _what?!_” in his acknowledgment). Another time, a pilot asked him what direction to face after pushback, and he said “Don’t face the passengers, that makes them nervous.” Abraham was never sanctioned for his quips; in fact, he won a prestigious award from the National Air Traffic Controllers Association for distinguished professionalism. YouTube has a collection of Kennedy Steve recordings (and he has a large fan base over there). Incidentally, I’ve heard him speaking to ground vehicles on the same frequency as airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/48 "2021-03-29T14:19:49Z")
Two books: [Slipping the Surly Bonds](https://www.amazon.com/Slipping-Surly-Bonds-Quotations-Flight/dp/0070220166/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Great+Quotations+on+Flight&qid=1617027200&s=books&sr=1-2) and [The Air Up There](https://www.amazon.com/AIR-UP-THERE-Quotations-Flight-ebook/dp/B000OVLJGY/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Great+Quotations+on+Flight&qid=1617027241&s=books&sr=1-3), both feature a section of quotes from ATC that contain various quips. You might enjoy them (other great aviation related quotes as well). > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Incidentally, I’ve heard him speaking to ground vehicles on the same frequency as airplanes. “Ground” and “air” frequencies are always as hard and fast as they might first appear. A lot has to do with the level of traffic, who is manning ATC, and so on. Back when I was actively flying I’d sometimes go out early to Gary Airport (GYY) and ask the ATC guy if I could practice right-hand turn take-offs and landings, essentially reversing the direction of traffic at the airport. If the situation allowed for it I usually got the go ahead to do it (hence, going early when there was usually no other traffic). We also had a controller there with a wild sense of humor, sort of like getting directions from Robin Williams and also like the ATC quips you mentioned above, although if things got busy the humor would take a back seat to business. Other times, of course, you have to maintain more rigid rules and procedures. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/49 "2021-03-29T14:27:55Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > he once directed a 747 to follow a Cessna 150 and added, “Caution, wake turbulence” In the mid-'70s dad and I stopped off landed at a small airport in Northern California on our way to Oregon, where one of his FAA colleagues was stationed. She told a story of how she was landing a Cessna at a large airport with a Boeing behind her. The radio conversation went something like this: TOWER: Cessna [N-number] cleared to land. Please expedite; there is a heavy behind you.’ PILOT: Cessna [N-number]. Tell him to watch out for my wake! ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/50 "2021-03-29T14:58:55Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > There is – or was, he’s since retired – an air traffic controller at JFK in New York named “Kennedy Steve” Abraham, who was known for his unflappability and his sense of humor; he once directed a 747 to follow a Cessna 150 and added, “Caution, wake turbulence” (you can almost hear the 747 pilot thinking, “…wait, _what?!_” in his acknowledgment). Another time, a pilot asked him what direction to face after pushback, and he said “Don’t face the passengers, that makes them nervous.” Abraham was never sanctioned for his quips; in fact, he won a prestigious award from the National Air Traffic Controllers Association for distinguished professionalism. YouTube has a collection of Kennedy Steve recordings (and he has a large fan base over there). JFK Ground: Qantas 12, at November [November and Bravo here identify taxiways] after the single engine Cessna continue via Bravo. Caution propwash. Qantas 12: At uhhh… Qantas 12: After the Cessna we’ll continue on Bravo, Qantas 12. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HkcFtnBslys/maxresdefault.jpg "[FUNNY ATC] Kennedy STEVE - SUPER COMIC... \*WARNING\*!! xD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkcFtnBslys&t=60) He’s got a few jokes that he repeats quite often. The one about which direction to face when pushing back, as noted. Also when pilots call in to confirm instructions that they are to follow another plane, he’ll often reply, “Well, follow them to the runway. Don’t follow them to [other plane’s destination].” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/51 "2021-03-30T04:58:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > As said by many, non-pertinent conversation is officially prohibited during taxi and below 10,000 feet. In the real world, hardly a flight goes by without a sentence or two that would be prohibited by a strict reading of the regs. It’s just part of reality. The occasional irrelevant comment is perfectly reasonable as a natural part of human relations. The problem would be when this irrelevant chatter is protracted and distracting, and this guy was really caught up in it. Even driving a car while angry has been shown to be very unsafe. Ground control tried to tell him he had a hot mike about halfway through the rant, and he totally missed it. It may have been because you can’t receive while transmitting, but for whatever reason, he didn’t hear it, and was far too busy ranting to notice the hot mic. It could have been an urgent safety-critical message that would have been totally missed. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Southwest has crew bases in Dallas, Houston, and Phoenix. Plenty of coal rollers to be found there. To my ear, this guy has a definite Texas twang, so I’d place a major bet on Dallas or Houston, which is also consistent with the culture he’d have been immersed in. Probably owns a jacked-up pickup with a tin-can muffler and black exhaust and a Trump bumper sticker. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/52 "2021-03-30T12:44:14Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Ground control tried to tell him he had a hot mike about halfway through the rant, and he totally missed it. It may have been because you can’t receive while transmitting, but for whatever reason, he didn’t hear it, and was far too busy ranting to notice the hot mic. It could have been an urgent safety-critical message that would have been totally missed. Yes, when you’re the one transmitting your receiver is totally off and you’ll never hear any warning about a hot mike. The announcement of a stuck mike is for everyone else’s benefit. If possible the announcement is also made on the emergency frequency that _usually_ tuned on everybody’s other radio. So there’s some chance the stuck airplane would hear it via that means. But that’s far from 100% certain, especially while the airplane is on the ground; that second radio is heavily used on the ground for other things. And yes, whether a transmission is pertinent or not, the longer it is the less safe it is because it’s blocking the rest of the legit business. Often rather time-critical legit business. I don’t mean to make light of this event. Just that stuck mikes are a daily occurrence on busy frequencies all over the world. As are in-cockpit ignorant Trumply or Libertarian, or Lizard People or pro- or anti-union or … rants. It’s the confluence of stuckness, rant topic, phase of flight, city, and social media that makes this one a topic of conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/53 "2021-03-30T15:04:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Yes, when you’re the one transmitting your receiver is totally off and you’ll never hear any warning about a hot mike. The announcement of a stuck mike is for everyone else’s benefit. It’s always been my experience that when anybody’s radio gets stuck on XMIT then nobody else can transmit – if two radios are trying to transmit on the same frequency at the same time, all anybody can hear is garble. This happens from time to time that someone’s radio gets stuck on XMIT for whatever reason, and it can effectively shut down all radio communications until that plane either lands and shuts down, or leaves the area. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/54 "2021-05-17T16:40:13Z")
In the video below he mentions that the transmit radio automatically cuts out after a bit in case a transmit switch is stuck on. That said, I do not know if this is true of all commercial planes (much less GA planes). [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/TR7dDLuWY7I/maxresdefault.jpg "Southwest Pilot RANT on Radio | Mentour Reacts") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7dDLuWY7I) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/55 "2021-05-17T16:51:44Z")
Some airline aircraft have that feature. I know our 737s do not. Neither did our now-retired MD80s, 757s & 767s. I do not know about SWA’s 737s. The 717s I was flying back around 1999-2001 had that. But IIRC the cutout occurred after 60 or 90 seconds. Plenty of time to say a bunch of stupid stuff. Why so long? Because sometimes it really takes that long to deliver a legit message. More commonly on an administrative freq than with ATC, but a report about something significantly out of the routine, an emergency with intentions, a pilot report about weather (“PIREP”), etc., could easily take a minute to transmit entire. Since this thread has been revived … > [@Senegoid](#): > > It’s always been my experience that when anybody’s radio gets stuck on XMIT then nobody else can transmit – if two radios are trying to transmit on the same frequency at the same time, all anybody can hear is garble. Depends a lot on the ranges involved. Enroute it’s easy to be 20 miles from the nearest powerful ATC antenna and 200 miles from the offending much weaker airplane. Or vice versa. The net effect is garbled, but not always fully unintelligible. Around the airport, such as on ground control, there’s also the impact of buildings. At Miami for example there are three broad parking areas: north, south, and west. Each separated from the other by 1/2-3/4ths a mile and a lot of thick 3-4 story buildings in between. It’s very common for airplanes on the north and south side to be calling ground control while neither can hear each other and the tower controller hears both, albeit a little overlaid / garbled. Ideally they’d subdivide the airport into at least 2 and maybe 3 sections and employ 2 or 3 ground controllers on the 2 or 3 separate freqs: one controller per freq per section with handoffs from one to another when taxiing across the section boundaries. Unfortunately, “ideally” costs money. So we all make do with lots of “say agains” and repeated attempts to establish contact while unwittingly stepping on / being stepped on by somebody else clear across the airport. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/56 "2021-05-17T19:55:06Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > And you REALLY have super-big balls when you’re rolling coal in a jet! Like this one? > **[Aviation Photo #0004414: Convair 880 (22-2) - Delta Air Lines](https://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/Convair-880-22-2/4414?qsp=eJwljMEKwkAMRP9lzr1owUKPFbzqwR8I22gXarMksbiU%2FrvL9jbMvDcbgizOP3%2FmxOhhTBomNEik9DH0GyhqUHr5QBbDgbXduWtgoj7kIqVJXG60ikbnq3wXx7HedWQtwMgW6ue7yKcSWB81o72UfoyWZsoVdIoz9v0PsGszPg%3D%3D)** > > Previous versions of this photo also copyrighted - Photo taken at Houston - George Bush Intercontinental (IAH / KIAH) in Texas, USA on November 30, 1971. Way before my time, but supposedly those old Convair 880s produced very smokey exhaust, even by the standards of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/57 "2021-05-17T20:00:43Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > It’s always been my experience that when anybody’s radio gets stuck on XMIT then nobody else can transmit – if two radios are trying to transmit on the same frequency at the same time, all anybody can hear is garble. It can be. That exact scenario was a primary factor in the Tenerife runway two-747 crash. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792/58 "2021-05-17T21:40:49Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > … supposedly those old Convair 880s produced very smokey exhaust, even by the standards of the time. Behold the power of pure smoke and noise: [https://www.google.com/search?q=convair+880+takeoff&hl=en&tbm=isch&oq=convair+880+takeoff](https://www.google.com/search?q=convair+880+takeoff&hl=en&tbm=isch&oq=convair+880+takeoff) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilot-on-a-hot-mike/938792.md?page=2)