# Pilots: what caused Voepass Linhas Aéreas Flight 2283 to crash? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 10, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550 "2024-08-10T21:12:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/21 "2024-08-12T20:34:00Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Anyhow, somehow his clipboard ful of paperwork, that was commonly left between the seat and the center pedestal became caught up in the seat and was raised along with the seat. Which reminds me of _another_ helicopter crash (this one fatal). IIRC the pilot dropped her kneeboard between the console and the seat, and couldn’t move the collective. (I don’t mean to hijack. It’s just the two posts reminded me of these.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/22 "2024-08-12T20:42:34Z")
Cockpits both large and small are notorious for requiring the pilots to use certain personal gear while flying however the engineers designing the cockpits make exactly zero provision for that stuff. Nowhere to secure it, nowhere safe to use it, no way to properly store it, nowhere to set it down where it won’t tumble to the floor and become unreachable. Or as you say, foul something truly real-time essential and thereby kill people. Pure insanity. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/23 "2024-08-12T20:45:46Z")
Here’s a link to a professional engineers forum, including forensic engineering, that discusses various disasters such as plane crashes. Not a ton of info there yet, but they are usually very thorough at gathering info, and in every discussion I’ve followed there, they’ve sussed out the cause pretty early in the process. > **[A plane crash in Brazil, near Sao Paulo... - Engineering Failures &...](https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=521732)** > > It appears that a a mid-sized passenger aircraft has crashed near Sao Paulo, Brazil: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13728665/brazil-plane-crash-sao-pa They mention the severe icing conditions at 17k feet. There’s also an unattributed mention that “some said” that they’d heard the aircraft request to descend, were told no, then they just informed that they were descending. But I haven’t watched the video that is the origin of that bit. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/24 "2024-08-12T20:51:19Z")
One comment I’ve not seen made: you generally don’t get severe icing in clear air. And doubly not in the tropics. They may well have been in clear air the last couple / few thousand feet as they spun / spiraled / gyrated / fell / whatever-ed into the ground. But it’s a decent bet the original loss of control took place in significant clouds and turbulence. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/25 "2024-08-12T21:26:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Which handle came out of the “flaps up” detent enough to migrate unnoticed to trigger the deployment of the leading edge slats at cruise Mach, some M0.82 or so. Totally off topic, but that sounds a lot like the Michael Crichton novel _Airframe_. The novel follows a fictional investigation of an incident caused by the slats deploying at cruise, and now I wonder if he was inspired by that real life incident. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/26 "2024-08-12T21:59:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > There’s no assurance something like this is what happened here. But my general prejudice is that when faced with something seemingly mysterious, assume the trigger was something thoroughly unanticipated. My dad, a career pilot, said that when something unexpected started happening, try to remember the last thing you did, since that probably caused it. In my own case, I was landing a 172 when it started slowing down. I added power, and added power, and landed. Then I noticed that the switch to extend the flaps had stuck in the down position. I had pressed the switch down, and when the flaps got to 20-degrees, I let go. It was supposed to spring back to the neutral position (and always had in the past), but this time it didn’t. The flaps had continued to extend all the way to 45-degrees. > [@WildaBeast](#): > > Totally off topic, but that sounds a lot like the Michael Crichton novel _Airframe_. The novel follows a fictional investigation of an incident caused by the slats deploying at cruise, and now I wonder if he was inspired by that real life incident. There was another incident with slat extenion in cruise in a 727. The strong speculation is that it was caused by the pilots. While the flight engineeer was in the lavatory, the pilot and co-pilot used an unauthorized, but apparently common, procedure to increase their speed. They pulled a circuit breaker that controlled slat extension, then extended the flaps 2-degrees. When the flight engineer came back, he noticed the popped breaker, and reset it. That caused the slates to extend. Bad things happened after that, with the airplane dropping 34,000 in just over a minute. The crew were able to regain control and land safely. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/27 "2024-08-14T03:52:34Z")
Similar incident: a pilot was taking pictures of the lovely evening skies with an SLR camera. It got wedged between the sidestick and the seat when he moved the seat forward, inducing a nose-down plunge. When the pilot recovered from the bad upset a good minute later, he threw the camera behind him. He knew it (he) was the culprit, but tried to pretend it was some mechanical issue. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550/28 "2024-08-14T04:29:06Z")
For want of a cupholder… > **[Fate Is the Hunter (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_Is_the_Hunter_(film))** > > Fate Is the Hunter is a 1964 American black-and-white aviation disaster film from 20th Century Fox, produced by Aaron Rosenberg, directed by Ralph Nelson, that stars Glenn Ford, Nancy Kwan, Suzanne Pleshette and Rod Taylor. Fate Is the Hunter also features Jane Russell (playing herself entertaining for the USO in a flashback sequence), Nehemiah Persoff, Wally Cox, and Mark Stevens. Dorothy Malone also makes an uncredited appearance. The film features an early film score by composer Jerry Goldsmit... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pilots-what-caused-voepass-linhas-aereas-flight-2283-to-crash/1005550.md?page=1)